1. Miguel Marcos says:

    Regardless of whether it is what it professes to be, the best policy for all your nutrients and anti-oxidants is fresh food, prepared at home. No expensive drink needed. Like Michael Pollan says: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."

    I would stay away from that and any other miraculous drink or nutrient.

  2. Omnia Vincit says:

    Hi,
    As a Brazilian and living in the Amazonas, wich is one of the biggest producers of Acai in Brazil. I can tell you Acai is good to ingest daily but as a food with inumerous Nutrients or more like a Snack, a very heavy Snack, it is eaten with Tapioca and very cold like Ice cream, it's delicious and Healthy. But as for the Price, it's ridiculous do Pay U$40,00, the cost of the Acai in the Region is like R$10,00 for about 2 litters.
    Just in case your wandering, it's about U$6,00.
    Love your Blog, have been reading for months now. Congrats.

  3. pbj says:

    That be a scam mon ami.

  4. Mrs. Micah says:

    'member Xander and the Boost bars in "The I in Team"? Yeah.

  5. escapee says:

    Run! This is a scam- I remember being approached by some Amway people when I was a poor college student. It became apparent about 10 minutes into their giving me the hard sell that it was basically a scheme for them to recruit me and make more money for themselves. This is the same sort of thing.

    Besides- like someone else pointed out earlier, if you eat good food you don't need this stuff. Have you read the recent research that suggests that *vitamins* might be bad for you? I just don't like to ingest anything that isn't food:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7349980.stm

  6. No Debt Plan says:

    Scam, scam, scam.

    Sad that people buy into this stuff.

  7. Laura Zurowski says:

    Like your wife, I too had been approached by some colleagues to become involved with Mona Vie. While I enjoyed the drink I found that if I drank the 2oz twice daily that I had a hard time sleeping. The main thing that put me off to selling it was that the company does not all selling over the internet! So I couldn't "legitimately" sell through eBay, Amazon, a personal blog... (although a Google search reveals lots of folks are doing this regardless). My suggestion is that if you like Mona Vie - go buy it online - you'll find prices cheaper than what it retails for.

  8. Traciatim says:

    I post this on almost ever Mona Vie post that I can find. I personally like a company here in Canada that makes fruit smoothie type drinks called Arthurs. (http://www.arthursjuice.com for those that care)

    They have 2 drinks that contain acai juice, their strawberry rainforest and the acai smoothie.

    One of the best things you can possibly do for your body is eat a variety of nutritious foods. One of the ways is to follow the 'Eat from the Rainbow' kind of food choice. I find whenever I'm feeling just 'off' if I get a couple of the Arthurs drinks and drink a different kind a day for a few days I just seem to be able to be less sore when you do work, less tired when you concentrate, you sleep better, and wake up more rested.

    As for Mona Vie, I'm sure it does all those things too . . . but why pay 40 bucks a bottle when you can just pick up a drink at your grocery store and get the same results. Plus you get to mix and match flavours.

    We picked up a juicer for 10 bucks at a garage sale kind of store once too. If you mix apple juice with many random fruit juices you can make some great drinks too. Throw some vanilla frozen yogurt in there and you have one darn fine drink for the summer.

  9. Writer's Coin says:

    Not sure if it's a scam or not, but it sounds similar to how pomegranate juice was viewed back before it became a big hit. Check out this recent New Yorker piece on Pom.

  10. WealthBoy says:

    For a multi-level marketing program to work, it needs to be a product that the distributors are willing to buy. Such companies really make their money on sales from within the distribution chain, not from end-users (i.e. the distributors are the end-users). This company is going to have a very hard time finding success because the product is simply way too expensive. In order to justify the price, it would have to provide dramatic results with little or no side-effects. As you said, they'd practically have to provide some kind of guarantee.

  11. Jim says:

    $50 a bottle sounds way to high. I found MonaVie for $35.

    If they were trying to get her to join they should have given a bottle away for FREE!

  12. Jim says:

    I'd stay far away from any Multi-Level Marketing system.

    Also, Monavie's founder Dallin Larsen was a VP at another company Dynamic Essentials Inc. which was shutdown by the FDA & FTC for false claims about their product, fined $2 million and forced to destroy their inventory:

    http://www.mlm-thewholetruth.com/monavie.shtml
    http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2003/NEW00976.html
    http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/nbty/nbty.shtm

  13. I went to one of my daughters cheerleading competitions and someone was giving away free samples of this stuff.

    When I first saw it, it looked like they were pouring wine out of a wine bottle and I was like SWEEEET! I could use a snoot before having to watch 10 year olds cheerlead for 2 hours, let me have the whole bottle. Imagine the disapointment when it I found out it was an antioxident AND non-alcoholic. Poor sales pitch.

  14. East Side Food Geek says:

    If it wasn't a scam, it wouldn't need multilevel marketing.

  15. Lee Gaba says:

    Overpriced for sure. Also, there are various opinions on its effectiveness. See the reviews at http://www.nutritionaltree.com for example. You have to wade through the ones obviously made by distributors.

  16. Anon says:

    You guys need to read Robert Kiykosaki's Book called the Cashflow Quadrant. Stop thinking like a 95%er. All of you complaining that the price is too expensive are broke and always will be broke because you choose to think like a comsumer (left side of quadrant) and not a business owner.
    And you want to talk about a scam?
    Its called EMPLOYMENT!
    Thats the biggest pyramid I know we've all been apart of. MonaVie only cost $39 to get started. And you all spend way more money on usless things anyway. I say, if it can get me out of my job, who cares what i have to do! \
    I WANT TO BE FREE!!!!

  17. jblee says:

    Most people have read Kiyosaki's book in the PF blogosphere, and most of us do not believe all of Kiyosaki's "teachings".

    Anyway, going back to MonaVie. One thing I don't understand is why do we need to pay the company if we're going to sell it? Shouldn't it be the other way around like they should HIRE us so we will push their products? Is it because of the business model? Come on, anybody can learn how to this model work. It's listed in the web, and there are a lot of books explaining the ins and outs of an MLM type of business.

  18. MoneyBlogga says:

    Personally, I'm not in a position to be able to spend $250 on 2 cases of Xango. But, that's what I did recently. A fool and his money indeed.

    A family member tries every MLM scheme going, including Amway and Quixtar, and Xango is the latest wagon this family member has jumped on. One of my immediate family has a serious health issue and my Xango Family Member implored me to try the mangosteen juice drink. $250 later, I have 2 cases delivered even though inside I am quietly seething.

    Less than 10 days later, Xango billed (soaked) me again for another $250. I've heard this is a common way for this company to get some big money in the first month - they bill you automatically THREE times: First, when you order. Second, about two weeks later because of the "billing cycle", and third on the anniversary of the first billing. You get your product but, in my case, I would've been out $750. So, I cancelled when I saw that second charge because I realized I was being soaked by a money grubbing "company" for whom the product was not even primary. Xango's primary concern is to keep the MLM going.

    Called my bank to cancel, and was told by the Fraud Dept that the bank receives far too many complaints about Xango MLM. The bank followed procedure regarding Xango and cancelled my card so that Xango cannot charge it again - apparently, Xango has found a way to charge even NEW cards when the old card hasn't been cancelled properly by the bank's Fraud Dept.

    All I was looking for was a health fix for a family member. I was sold on the juice drink by my family member who shamelessly made some grand claims regarding what the drink had done for her. Thinking about it, though, she lives a very clean and disciplined lifestyle ANYWAY.

    Yes,a fool and his money. I am out $250 on the first case and 90% on the second case after returning it plus shipping. I'm still waiting for my refund on the second case from Xango. When all's said and done, I'll be out over $300 just for trying to be diplomatic to a family member who will probably stop talking to me now anyway. Can't win.

  19. Jake Starling says:

    Why do the cult-like members of the "MonaView Family" prey/pray on people at Health Fairs? Goddamn it already! We plopped down a credit card, joined up and bought a bottle of the stuff for $40. Seemed ok until I checked with Trader Joe's and Whole Foods on the competitor products. All were cheaper than MonaVie. Stay clear of the latter until they drop their prices (in half at least)!!!!

  20. ann taylor says:

    Hi
    you guys are so sad. Monavie's acai is unlike any other acai out there. All you have to do it drink it to tell the difference. People are feeling great on this stuff - it is their processing that is different as it retains more nutrients - all verified. Lot's of great products are sold through MLM - only Americans are so offput by MLMs - they are huge elsewhere in the world. Think Avon, Tupperware, Creative Memories, Discovery Toys, Arbonne... all MLMs. This product needs to be sold person to person with a personal story. Anyone paying 40 dollars a bottle is stupid. The wholesale non bulk price is just $32.50 a bottle and worth every dime. Try eating 6-8 organic or wild fruits a day for that price. Anyways, not sure why I am wasting my time trying to explain this to you guys, but you are missing out. Also, the company just hit a billion dollars in sales in just over 3 years - hard to believe a company could grow that quickly word of mouth if the product wasn't changing lives. Just drink it for a month and you'll understand. I drank the other Acai products and never felt a thing. This is the real deal.

  21. Lazy Man says:

    Ann, the difference is that all the other MLM products mentioned have easily measurable benefits. I put my food in Tupperware and it stays fresh longer. The difference with MonaVie is that some percentage of that could be placebo effect. Where are the studies between taking nothing, taking a multi-vitamin, taking a placebo and taking MonaVie? Surely with millions in sales something could be commissioned.

    Enron changed a lot of people's lives as well with more than billions in sales.

  22. Jeff Mason says:

    Great discussion.

    I can understand the negative responses to MLM companies and their products. However, Monavie will be the fastest company on record to achieve one billion dollars in annual sales revenue this year or next year. This beats Google and Microsoft in achieving this revenue milestone. No too bad for an MLM.

    As for the products, don't buy them if you don't know what's in them. Do your research. For me, Xango remedied terrible headaches endured for over 12 years... in a couple of days. I will never stop consuming their product.

    I am a founding partner in a new MLM company that will launch in 30-60 days. We will have several products based on pure fruit purees harvested from the area near the mouth of the Amazon. These heavenly fruits are the most anti-oxidant rich available. The reason I became involved was not just a better whole-fruit product, but the mission of the company: to improve and extend the quality of life by (omitted) nutrient-rich "super-foods" from the Amazon in our (omitted) of products. We are committed to (environmental leadership), use of eco-friendly products (and contributing) to our communities and environment, and to
    understand environmental (problems) by sharing (things) with our partners. In addition, we have partnered with a pioneer in compensation plan development. This pioneer sought for years to revolution distributor compensation with several of the billion-dollar companies that consulted with him, but was rebuked by all. This compensation plan is going revolutionize MLM and support both the distributor who wants to earn an extra few hundreds dollars a month and the heavy hitters who produce and desire better results. I can only mention small tidbits of this pay plan, and in general there is way too much information to divulge here. I am also bound by an NDA to limit more revealing discussion.

    I've included my Xango link because my team is committed to building streamlined distributorship. Top Xango leaders have finally realized that their uni-level plan just didn't work for the everyday distributor or consumer of Xango. Xango would definitely retain more members with this kind of plan. I also want to add that when I joined Monavie in November of 2004 (pre-launch), even though I had already committed to my Xango business. Over the years I brought in a few friends and family to my Monavie business, but did not retain anyone. As of yesterday I have almost $18,000,000 in sales revenue in my right sales team (my powerleg). How much of that made it into my bank account? About $250. With our new comp plan, that will never happen to anyone in our company... guaranteed. We cannot patent the algorhythm, but we will be the first to bring it to the industry. Existing companies cannot adopt this new pay plan for obvious reasons. New companies will adopt this plan, but we will be the first to bring it to the world. A category creator of comp plans, if you will.

  23. Lazy Man says:

    J.C. I guess no one should buy MonaVie then since they don't disclose what's in it.

    You can't compare to Google and Microsoft - this sounds like some kind of marketing brought from the top level of the MLM chain. Obviously, there were limited computers when Microsoft was coming out - no one could afford PCs back then. Google didn't try to earn money for the first couple of years - they didn't even sell a product that I can think of...

    I could have a billlion in revenue in 30 days if I offered every two dollars for each one paid to me... revenue really means nothing. If anything the revenue is an argument of why consumers should avoid MonaVie.

  24. Michael says:

    I have some family members all wrapped up in this, and I'm really intrigued by the brilliance of the plan here, in many ways. Of course, I'm also pretty sure this juice is worthless junk, loaded down, in some cases with glucosamine and chondroitin (the 'active' formula) that can provide measurable benefits. But you can get that stuff without the juices for a fraction of the price.

    But think about the completeness of the idea:

    -you can live longer

    -you can live healthier

    -you can help your friends be healthy

    -you can be rich

    -you can make your friends rich

    -you can stop working once you've built your 'organization' and relax with your income stream

    If that isn't a pretty good sell, I don't know what is. Above and beyond other MLM products, this one promises health.

    Any read into the details shows that no health benefits at all are proven, that one "doctor" quoted is actually an "ND" instead of an MD (nutraceuticals doctor, or something). No study shows anything about this, and there may not even be a consistent amount of whatever purported active ingredient has all of the supposed benefits.

    But Americans are most worried about money and health, and this brilliantly appeals to both issues.

  25. Gail says:

    I am a MonaVie Distributor and it is one of the best things that has ever happened to me. I wasn't looking for another income stream when I got into MonaVie. I have (or I should say had) very bad digestive problems. I had tried everything on the market. Eating good foods, etc. Also taking several medications, prescription and over the counter. A friend of mine gave me a bottle of MonaVie and did not tell me anything about it except to try it and let him know what I thought. By the end of the week, I had noticed that I had not had a digestive system attack in several days. At that time, I did not contribute it to the juice. I liked the taste and ordered another bottle. By the time I finished the second bottle, there was a large change in my digestive track and my life. I called and paid my $39.00 (which I had paid $500.00 to get into some other MLM several years ago and never made a dime). I figured that I blow $39.00 on any given day. So what the heck!!!! I would pay $100 a bottle for MonaVie for the way that I feel today. Working 12 - 14 hours a day in a business that I have owned and operated for 15 years, it is hard to eat the foods you need everyday. This juice helps supplement missed foods for me.
    I have personally seen it make a difference in the health of several of my family members also. So I am a believer and very passionate about MonaVie.

  26. Jeff says:

    I'll bet not a one of you naysayers doesn't have a piece of Tuppaware in your home right now or some Mary Kay in your wife's makeup closet.

    Some idiot out there turned you off to the MLM idea and you're too prideful to actually believe in something to sell it to your friend.

    Honestly the only people who call this a scam are people who didn't put in the research or the time to investigate how it works or signed up for something else years ago and never did anything with it. Where I live we call those people "lazy".

    Don't forget that money talks - BS walks.

    It's only when you start thinking outside the box that new things happen.

    I'm making money and helping others do the same. You don't have to believe me, and you don't have to take 15 minutes to see what real people are saying about Mona Vie either - just keep believing what you want.

  27. anon says:

    There are plenty of sceptics against MLM's. The facts are far from their experience. Those that listen and actually apply the concepts and procedures properly prosper. I have been in various MLM's and I have made a profit in all but the first one I joined. Facts are facts...if you are looking for get rich quick buy a lotery ticket. If you're looking for long term wealth join an MLM. You will never make more than your boss in a 9 to 5 job...I make way more than the person that introduced me to Mona Vie! People who campaign against MLM's eother never joined or never executed when they did join!

  28. CC says:

    There are 2 very distinct sides to MonaVie: The drink itself, and the business. The acai berry is scientifically proven to be very good for you, and the MonaVie blend seems to be indeed a healthy drink. No problem there. The big problem is on the business side of MonaVie.

    Though much is said about the health benefits of the drink on the recruiting sales pitch, the really attractive part of the pitch is obviouly the money that one can supposedly make by "selling the idea of selling MonaVie to others, who will then sell the idea to others, who will the sell the idea to others", where once you have recruited enough people, eventually will just sit back, and watch the money flow in, as others take over what used to be your recruiting job, and work developing that continuous network under you.

    The problem with that is that never is such a network successfully formed and sustained, and the money one would make is really from the people that had no success at all creating the network, but spent hundreds of dollars buying the product to use it in their attempts of creating this network.

    These wannabe networkers eventually realize this dream network is impossible to create and quit once they figured they have lost enough money buying the product and getting no return or profit on their... "investment".

    There are obviously a few people making money with MonaVie, but not through the "dream MLM network". These successfull MonaVie "pushers" (for lack of a better word) are the ones who continuously keep recruiting and selling the product and the MLM idea to new recruits. There is no network, just more and more unsuspecting recruits. As long as someone can consistantly find new recruits willing to spend a few hundred or thousand dolars for a few months attempting to create their own network before they eventually quit, the formation of the actual pyramid style network is completely unecessary. All that is needed is to consistently find people who are willing to spend money trying to set their own magic networks.

    So because of all this, I classify the business practice adopted by the MonaVie company as a scam. They use a good product to sucker people into believing a magic money making network can be created, when in reality the magic network is nothing but a trick to entice people to buy MonaVie so they can try to make the magic work.

    The idea is so clever, that the vast majority these unsuccessfull gullible people think its their own fault that they could not create their MLM network for this product.

    In essense, MonaVie is a good (but overpriced) product, sold/marketed in a very shady way. If the idea was to realy promote a healthy drink, the product would be sold in stores for much cheaper, so to build a solid base of consumers/drinkers.

    Acai juice is actually very tasty, but the odds are extremely high that getting involved with MonaVie MLM will leave a bad taste in your mouth...

  29. AJ says:

    Interesting blog! Great read!

    Upon observation I noticed all that are against Monavie and Good MLM's are consumer driven, or think like consumers, business owners are the people who create jobs and opportunity, think like business owners.
    If you don't believe in a product then don't make it your business.

    The same people who complain about Monavie being expensive have purchased water for $10/ gallon, (easily when a 16-20 oz bottle is $1-$2), prob bought a beer at a ball game for $8, and Im sure has paid $4 for a coffee @Starbucks...

  30. Brett @ Personal Loan Portfolio says:

    My wife was invited to a social event an emergency room surgeon's house and it turned out that she only only wanted to sell this stuff to her friends.

    My wife was not impressed with the product or her friend.

  31. Vogel says:

    A little late to the table here but wanted to share my perspectives after reading some of these comments.

    First of all, regarding MLMs, it may be true that not all are bad, but many are, particularly when it comes to MLM products in the health and nutrition realm. The MLM system seems to result in far too many wildly exaggerated and deceptive product claims from distributors, since there is no system in place that allows for them to be monitoring or regulated. The parent company can always say that that it's not their fault if their distributors make false claims – meanwhile they are pocketing a lot of revenue as a result of some very dishonest marketing.

    As for Tupperware, the main reason why people don't have it on their shelves anymore is because MLM is an obsolete and inefficient system for selling products. Why on earth would anyone today want to devote time listening to some desperate hawker pitching overpriced plasticware in their living room when they can get it hassle free at half the cost on the internet from their local supermarket or Walmart. Companies that use these business models beat the pants off MLMs because they consolidate resources and they can offer products that people want conveniently, reliably, and affordably.

    And as someone mentioned, people should question why the company charges the distributor for the privilege of selling Monavie instead of the other way around. It's because that's a big component of the business model. There is no production cost for selling distributorships – it's pure profit. It doesn't matter if the distributor struggles and can't sustain sales - the company still gets their cut up front. When a company makes its money from selling distributorships, important details like market saturation are of no importance, but for the distributor in an oversaturated regional market, this can mean certain failure and a wasted expenditure of time, effort, and money.

    But that's enough about MLMs in general. Let's talk specifics about Monavie. Here you have a product that brags about the wonders of acai but won't actually reveal how much is in it... what does that tell you? That alone shows the product to be snakeoil and it should be enough to make anyone immediately run the other way. At $40 a bottle, it is clearly overpriced and at that cost, there should be no mysteries about what's in it. None of the ingredients, including acai, are anywhere near expensive enough to justify such a high price. That's why every other honestly-marketed brand of juice (including many types of acai juice) sells for a fraction of the price – and they list their ingredients.

    As someone here already pointed out, the big man behind Monavie, Dalin Larsen, was a senior VP with Dynamic Essentials, a company that made Royal Tongan Limu Juice and was, for good reason, run out of business by the Feds. Aside from the name, everything about Limu - and I do mean everything - was identical to the Monavie spiel: it also had an exotic ingredient (limu vs. acai) from an exotic place (Tonga vs. the Amazonian rainforest) used to make a juice allegedly rich in antioxidants that came in a wine bottle and sold for $40 each (ala Monavie) through MLM distributors who made a variety of illegal and misleading claims, many of which were based on bogus pseudoscience concocted by the company (also, just like Monavie). If anyone needs a second solid reason as to why they stay away from Monavie, this should certainly do the trick.

    As for the scientific claims made about Monavie, it's all smoke and mirrors – there really isn't scientific validity to this product. There are some very weak and misleading data about acai itself, but so what. First, since the amount of acai in Monnavie is unknown, you can't assume that it provides any of the benefits of the whole unprocessed fruit. Secondly, swamping your body with antioxidants as a means to better health is an overly simplistic and outdated concept espoused mainly by uninformed hacks and pop media sources – it does not reflect prevailing opinion among scientists, physicians, and government health agencies. The name of the game is to eat a good diet, not to try to compensate for a poor diet by taking high-dose antioxidant supplements. So even if Monavie had whopping antioxidant levels, there's no evidence that this would provide any significant health benefit. It could even be bad for you. And if all you want is antioxidants, you can take a cheap multivitamin or an inexpensive antioxidant-rich 100% juice like prune or grape juice for a fraction of the cost of Monavie. You know exactly what's in 100% pure juice from the supermarket or in a multivitamin because it's listed on the label, but with Monavie you are flying blind.

    The original post asked about the study by Alexander Schauss. It's not a legitimate published study – it's basically nothing more than a press release from AIBMR Life Sciences, a research-for-hire company owned and operated by Shauss. The data (using the term generously) that this press release contains is garbage. The report mentions the percentage of subjects that showed increases in TBARS and antioxidant levels, but it doesn't give the actual TBAR and antioxidant levels or the extent of the changes, nor does it present any data for the placebo group. As I said, this isn't a legitimate detailed study report, and the scant details that are listed are misleading and scientifically meaningless.

    A 1989 report from the National Coalition Against Health Fraud described how Schauss had faked his academic credentials and was the subject of a special task force investigation regarding the pseudoscientific nature of his work and his claims regarding diet and criminal behavior.
    http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-9205625_ITM

    As for Sumner Redstone and the BoSox, let me just answer that question with another question. What do these people have in common: OJ Simpson, William Shatner, Joe Montana, Steve Garvey, and Chris Everett-Lloyd? They were all spokespersons for allegedly "revolutionary" supplement products that were later exposed to be fraudulent. Simpson was a pitchman for a widely criticized overpriced MLM multivitamin called Juice Plus and he claimed that it cured his arthritis, but his Juice Plus testimonial was exposed as a lie during his murder trial and he had to be dropped from the company's ads. Shatner, Montana, Garvey and Everett-Lloyd all plugged United Sciences of America's products in the late 80s, until the company's pyramid scheme was shutdown by the FDA in one of the most widely publicized supplement investigations to date. After United Sciences imploded, the athletes were ordered to appear before the New York State Supreme Court to explain their involvement with the company, and the reputations of a bunch of high profile scientists and doctors who plugged the product also went down the toilet. Bottom line, never trust testimonials – they are meaningless, except perhaps as a tip-off to fraud. Even Orrin Hatch got on the bandwagon and told the press that he drinks XanGo, another overpriced MLM wonder juice that has been widely criticized for fraudulent marketing. But it's no coincidence that Hatch is MLM-friendly given that so many MLM companies, including the one that makes XanGo, are based in Hatch's home state of Utah.

    I have little doubt that some Monavie distributor will reply back with some shoddy arguments in defense of MLM, or perhaps an ad hominem attack or an accusation that I work for a competitor. But the truth is, I am just a non-aligned well-trained curious scientist who knows how to find information and process it, and I spent considerable time looking into this product and its claims. Everything about Monavie screams fraud.

  32. robin says:

    so may i say...monavie is already successful as a billion dollars after only 3 years. The results are dramatic time and time again without exception. Do a search for monavie testamonials. People who have drank it and had amazing results understand that they can no longer afford NOT to drink it. Monavie makes NO claims about the juice...but testimonials are different. It has been medically proven and published via double blind blood serum study to provide the same antioxidants as 13 servings of fruit and vegetables in only 4 ounces. Multi level marketing is the fastest growing type of business model in the world. many big companies have gotten on the band wagon...ATT for example. They want to market a new phone, they shot off an email to peoplw who have agreed to be a part of their network and the people buty the phone for a wholesale price and they in turn shooot of emails to everyone they know who then also buy the phone. They have now sold 100,000 phones before they ever spend one dime on advertising. its smart business. Monavie is the only company with proven and published clinical studies (thats because when a comapy decides to do clinical trials they are agreeing that the results will be published good bad or ugly). NO...you cannot get the same thing in the grocery store for a few dollars. Most juices are clarified to make them pretty stripping them of nutrition and the cheaper processing methods take away 50-70% of the nutritional value...every time. Monavie has a patent pending process (which coca cola tried to buy) which is very expensive and costly and it preseves 100% of the antioxidant and nutritonal value (its proven look it up). And as for paying 180.00 a month...the idea is to join up and get it whoelsale...it goes from 45.00 a bottle to 32.50 (for active) and that is the most you will pay...more product means even cheaper. Yes...its how they makemoney and consumers save...by joining. Its their right to make money like anyone else. at least they are helping people with their product. Monavie has started the more project to give back to the people of brazil...they now fund a huge effort their in rio that takes abandoned babies and orphans off the streets and raises them and when they are grown...they teach the how to be good moms and dads (as they had no examples). Look up the more project. Monavie gives every dollar the is for the more project to the orphans....the company even eats the administrative costs out of their profit. Poachers no longer are being allowed to kill 5000 palm trees a day for 50 cents (to get the heart of palm that we love on our salad). The locals protect the trees becasue monavie pays them a reccurring income to harvest the berries twice a year. and as for buying it elsewhere on the internet cheaper...good luck. If it is cheaper than 30.00 a bottle (for active) then you are buying old inventory that someone is trying to get rid of. Its food people...monavie will not stand behind it if you didnt get it from them or a distributor. If you get sick...good luck.
    AND their are no vitamins added...it is all fruit. the fda recognizes monavie as a whole food and nOT a supplement and hasnt bothered with them. If distributors are making false claims in the name of the company then they will be dealt with as soon as monavie can get to them. Please dont knock what you dont know. I got into this because it literally saves the lives of 2 people I know and has increased the qualit of life of countless others I know. IT is not a miracle in a bottle..its good nutrition with the highest anitoxidants on the planet (proven...if you say you have a better product then point us to the clinical studies). IT is truly amazing what thehuman body can do for itself with proper nutrition. The people of amazonia eat acai like we eat potatoes and they ALL look younger, are stronger longer, have almost no heart disease or diabetes. And yes...if you want a free bottle I'll give you one. I stand behind this product 100%. I do not lie or scam, cheat or steal. I am a youth minister and this is the real deal. My phone number is on the website if you want to "discuss" monavie with me. And by the way...maria ramirez, who is the worlds foremost financial forecaster (according to the wallstreet journal) has predicted monavie to grow exponentially and be the prominetn driver in the functional food and beverage category.

  33. Vogel says:

    Maria, there didn't seem to be many (if any) verifiable facts in your post. Furthermore, you are incorrrect in claiming that "Monavie is the only company with proven and published clinical studies" - in fact not a single clinical study on Monavie has ever been published, let alone anything that would support your claim that "it has been medically proven and published via double blind blood serum study to provide the same antioxidants as 13 servings of fruit and vegetables in only 4 ounces".

    You clearly play fast and loose with the facts and the misleading claims you made above place in you jeopardy with the Federal Trade Commission for false and misleading advertising.

    As for the MORE Project, I don't think any rightminded individual would regard it as a legitimate charity nor would they donate to it. The MORE Project is not a registered U.S. charity, so (conveniently) it's activities and expenditures cannot be monitored as they could be if it were registered in the U.S., nor is it mentioned on any of the widely cited lists of reputable charitable organizations. The MORE Project is a thinly veiled cash grab and a devious publicity stunt, but it is certainly not a reputable charitable orgnaization.

  34. Vogel says:

    Sorry, got the name worng in my last reply. It was to Robin not Maria.

  35. robin says:

    no its not a registered charity but they are still doing it. Even the government gave them a hard time when they applied to be able to export to brazil (dontations, clothes etc) because they wanted to know the "catch". maybe the company was just founded by people who believe in good karma. Is everything a conspiracy and a scam to you guys? The stuff works and yes it is the ONLY company in its category to have actual human studies. others have sent samples of their juice to brunswick lab and touted their orac as higher then any other. Notice they are touting their ORAC-HYDRO numbers and not the whole orac value. copy paste the following

    http://www.trends2000.net/rad/pdf/teamdocs/DoubleBlindStudyFindings.pdf [Editor's note: This URL doesn't exist anymore as of 12/13/2008]

    http://www.aibmr.com/monavie.pdf [This is the study mentioned in the original article that has already been disputed in comment #32]

    Drink what you want. spend 4 and 5 dollars a shot for a caffeine energy drink or a coffee at starbucks. But why not spend your time finding something that you think IS good for people and tell them about it? You spend alot of energy and venom on trying to disprove things.

  36. Lazy Man says:

    Robin, I think people are just trying to find scientific proof that it works better than a placebo before they spend large amounts of money on it.

    Remember this is a website about personal finance, so expect every non-MonaVie distributor to question why it has more value.

    Coffee at Starbucks is not a fair comparison because you are paying for restaurant convenience. You wouldn't compare it to a soda at the movies at $4, but the cost of soda in general. When MonaVie is sold at restaurants in the same way, we'll see if it is the same price, or if it jumps up to cover the cost of overhead like stores, baristas, couches, cool music, etc.

  37. Vogel says:

    Robin, you had said "Monavie is the only company with proven and published clinical studies" and that "it has been medically proven and published via double blind blood serum study to provide the same antioxidants as 13 servings of fruit and vegetables in only 4 ounces". Knowing that these claims were false, I challenged you to prove them and you provided: (1) a flawed and incomplete self-published document from a contract research organization (AIBMR Life Sciences) hired by Monavie (2) a babbling self-published pseudoscientific commentary on the press release posted on the site of a Monavie distributor. Neither of these remotely qualify as "published clinical studies" and neither mention anything remotely close to what you said about 4 oz being equivalent to 13 servings of fruit and vegetables".

    The truth, as I said before, is that there are no published studies to back up your claims, and you had best recant them because the Federal Trade Commission and Better Business Bureau will consider them to be fraudulent and misleading advertising. I'll be happy to make the necessary arrangements and you can discuss your claims with them.

    As for the MORE Project, there is only one good reason why a charity affiliated with a U.S.-based company would not register in the U.S. - they want to hide their activities and financial statements. Regardless of what MORE may be doing, without oversight and public scrutiny of any kind, this is not a charity that should be trusted. U.S registered charities must list a stated goal and submit annual tax returns, which are open to the public. It's easy to for anyone to check who runs the charity, whether/how much they get paid, and where the money is being spent.

    Good charities have low overheads and spend most of the donations they receive on their stated goals, rather than administrative expenses. Bad U.S.-based charities don't. And some sham charities, like the MORE Project, register in a foreign country so that no one here in the U.S. can find out whether their donations are paying for product advertising and perqs for a select few.

    It seems the main value of the MORE Project (aside from the possibility that it is enriching the bank accounts of Monavie execs) is to create a veneer of philanthropy for the company, which they leverage heavily in their promotion of the juice - just as you did here. After you got hammered on all the important facts, you ran for cover under the MORE Project umbrella.

  38. robin says:

    okay...i'll drink it, you dont have to. all i know about the more project is that the kids have a new village that has been built for them (or is it a big wooden facade?). Maybe the execs are getting rich from it...who knows. you dont and i dont either...but the kids are getting the help. IF you ever want to try monavie...let me know, i'll send you some (on me). For now...we'll agree to disagree. and as for the fda...please go ahead and send them this post.

  39. Vogel says:

    Drinking it is your pergoative...lying about it isn't.

  40. robin says:

    I havent lied about anything...
    the antioxidants in one apple is roughly 4000 orac units...thats 100 grams.
    the orac in ONE gram of cranberry is 92
    the orac in ONE gram of freeze dried opti-acai is 1027. monavie does not disclose the exact amount of acai...but if you understand labeling laws you know that ingredients must be listed in order of amount from greatest to smallest. look at the label o' venomous one. Look...communicate nicely and lets make it a discussion or visit your local anger management class...somehow you are NOT giving the impression that youre just someone at a website about finances wanting to make sure monavie is worth the money. ??

  41. Lazy Man says:

    I don't think Vogel has been venomous and/or requires anger management. He/She is simply supplying the facts and pointing out that your claims were false and can be illegal advertising.

    I couldn't find the MonaVie label to look at (please forward on a web address of one), but if there are 18 other ingredients... if it's the very first it might only be 5.3% acai (with the other ingredients each being being 5.1%). If it's not the first ingredient, maybe that first ingredient is 98% of the juice and the other 18 including the acai make up the other 2%. Just using simple math to show how the ingredient list doesn't tell the whole story.

    [Just to be clear, Vogel is just a random concerned person, not me.]

  42. robin Boucher says:

    he has accused me of lying..he has accused me of hiding behind the more project and he insinuated i was not a "rightminded" individual for believing that a for profit company could ever be giving anything to charity. I aint here to sell monavie...i stumbled across the blog and thought.."oh wow, let me tell these folks what I know". Why is the research and the double blind study not valid in your eyes? Why is the antioxidant study that showed the orac value of the opti acai not valid to you? I'm not sure what constitutes valid to you. because they were done by outside labs paid by monaive? Would you not expect them to be paid for their services...brunswick laboratories, look them up. if monavie had done the studies you would say they werent valid because monavie did them. who has to do them for you to consider them valid? How many people have to have outstanding results for them to be not lying? I will forward you a list of ingredients.

  43. Lazy Man says:

    Robin: One of you simply doesn't seem to be telling the truth (since you both contradict each other).

    Vogel said that the AIBMR Life Sciences study was paid for by MonaVie. If he's right, then yes, biases are introduced and it has to be done by someone else.

    How many people with outstanding results aren't biased by the fact that they are selling the product as well? It doesn't seem to be a lot of people, but go back and read the original article, I listed some famous ones.

    It is EXTREMELY important to mention that the MORE project is not a US recognized charity. To mention it and leave that out is hiding in my opinion.

  44. Vogel says:

    More importantly, Robin claimed that the research was "published", when in fact it was not. AIBMR's self-published document carries no more weight then if I were to scrawl my own research report on the back of a napkin and claim that it was published. "Published" means printed in a peer-reviewed medical/research journal - not in a Monavie brochure or on the company's website. Claiming that this research has been published when in fact it was not, constitutes false advertising.

  45. robin says:

    Mona-Vie Acai Comparison to Other JuicesFriday, March 7, 2008 A note from product support....

    Thank you for your email concerning the MonaVie blend. Many have asked how our acai juice the premier acai blend compares to other acai fruit juices and supplements available. Some competitors note the products they sell contain 100% acai in the form of a juice or supplement. They assert that because their product is "100% acai" and ours is not that somehow theirs is better.

    For example, one company online sells acai supplements with 100% pure acai. A serving size of this product is two capsules and contains 1,000 mg or 1 gram of freeze dried acai. Let's say for illustration purposes only the actual amount is proprietary that MonaVie contains 25% acai. Does this somehow make MonaVie less potent? No, because if 1 serving of MonaVie, which is 1 oz. contains 25% acai by weight and one serving is equal to 60 grams, then twenty-five percent of sixty grams is 20 grams (or 20,000 mg) of acai in each serving.

    You can do the math, but MonaVie's 25% acai by weight turns into 20 times more acai per serving than their 100% acai at 1 gram per serving. MonaVie guarantees you will be getting more than 1 gram of acai many times over per serving. The 25% acai by weight in our product is 100% acai just like the competition, but our product also contains other beneficial ingredients.

    Some ask, wouldn't it be better to buy a 100% acai juice product, than a product with only 25% acai? As an example only. If someone tells you they sell a 100% pure acai juice, do not believe them. The acai berry is a very unique fruit. Unlike any other berry, acai is about 90% seed with the remaining portion pulp and skin. When processing acai berries they turn into a puree at best. You cannot squeeze acai berries to create a 100% acai juice.

    Both Original and Active MonaVie juices are 100% juice made up of 19 fruit purees and juices including 100% pure acai. MonaVie mixes its beneficial fruits and juices into one drink, which includes a high quality and the most scientifically studied acai available. The acai used in MonaVie has been the subject of at least three scientific studies and a study on its antioxidant benefits in humans will be published early next year in 2008. Ask the competition if they have clinical research on their acai product.

    The freeze dried acai and puree used in MonaVie are taken from the best quality sources available. As an example of MonaVie's uncompromising commitment to quality, the company spends the necessary money for the highest quality acai available. How? The current buying power of the US Dollar (USD) is low compared to the Brazilian Real (BRL).

    Some companies buy lower quality acai berries to save money. These lower quality berries have less pulp meaning fewer flavonoids, lower fatty-acid content, and less nutritional value. Regardless of cost, MonaVie's pledge to quality does not allow for the introduction of lower quality acai berries into its products.

    MonaVie is intimately involved in the manufacturing process from the harvesting of the acai berry to the finished product. Once picked, processing of the acai berries starts within 24 hours. This ensures the highest nutritional composition of the berries is maintained. Left out for longer periods, the acai berries start to lose their nutritional value.

    Other companies may not follow this simple step. The quality and content of the acai used in MonaVie is tested and validated by an independent laboratory before it is approved for use in the MonaVie products. This guarantees when purchasing our product you will receive a high-quality and safe product.

    MonaVie's acai berries are processed using a unique freeze drying procedure and frozen in the form of a puree to maintain its nutritional composition. Both freeze drying and freezing acai berries maintains 100% of their phytonutrient content. Other processing methods, such as air drying and spray drying sometimes used by other companies diminish the phytonutrient content of the acai berry by as much as 55-70%.

    Other companies may use a freeze drying process, but the proprietary freeze dried process used by MonaVie and the claims related to its antioxidant and immune benefits are patent pending. This means a patent has been filed to protect the intellectual properties of the unique freeze drying process used and the claims associated with it.

    Some have asked to see a copy of the patent application, but we would never provide this information because it would reveal information that is unique to the acai we use. Also, because of our quality specifications and processing methods used, the acai puree and freeze-dried powder have a significantly higher percentage of pulp when compared to other acai sources. The pulp is packed with beneficial nutrients and antioxidants. If you like your juices pulp-free, you may be limiting the amount of beneficial nutrients your body needs.

    Some companies selling acai juices (these would have to be blended with other juices to truly be a juice) often use a process called clarification. This process strips the acai content of the juice with as much of its nutrient composition, especially the beneficial fatty acids. They do this because fats are generally highly unstable and are difficult to use in juice formulations.

    Companies who sell products on the store shelf cannot easily explain why their juice may contain greenish clumps which are perfectly normal in a situation of non-clarification and are actually healthy for you. Instead of dealing with these issues, they highly process their juice and clarify it, but by doing so they compromise the nutritional quality of their product.

    A person may be purchasing a product claiming to be "100% acai juice" from a health food store, but you are not getting the same quality of acai or acai juice when compared to MonaVie. The quality and superiority of MonaVie's acai juice is next to none! It is truly the premier acai blend.
    I hope this helps. Let me know if I can further assist you. Have a great day!

    Heidi
    Product Support
    MonaVie Distributor Support

  46. Vogel says:

    I don't see how this answers any of the questions raised so far. This is not "published clinical research"; it is an internal document from Monavie and it offers no evidence whatsoever to support your claim that 4 oz of Monavie has antoxidants equivalent to 13 servings of fruit and vegetables, nor does it mention that any clinical research has been published - contrary to your earlier claim.

    You know, it won't kill you if you simply retract your previous statement (which has now been thoroughly debunked) instead of trying to skirt around it.

  47. robin says:

    fyi..that post was for lazymans information concerning a private email. it wasnt intended to try to answer the issues youve raised. But...i wouldlike to validate the product so i'm going strait to monavie and dr.schauss for that. Can you please do me a favor and make a post with the issues you want answered in a simple list form.
    1.
    2.
    3. etc.
    There has been much banter between us and i dont have the time or energy to go back and read through it all. make sure you list them all...so i can try to address them all. Obviously you know that i would not continue on with this discourse if i didnt really believe in this product and the company. If its a good company and product would you want ot really know that or are you set on hatingit no matter what? i'm not being sarcastic...i'm asking a real question. likewise...if its a scam or a fraud i will know by the time i'm done and i will change my views concerning monavie.

  48. Vogel says:

    OK. If it's necessary, I'll again restate it in very simple terms for you.

    Ask them why distributors like yourself are:

    1. Falsely claiming that "Monavie is the only company with proven and published clinical studies" when in fact no clinical trials have been published.

    2. Falsely claiming that Monavie "has been medically proven and published via double blind blood serum study to provide the same antioxidants as 13 servings of fruit and vegetables in only 4 ounces", when in fact no such study has ever been published.

    3. Often misrepresenting the product despite the company's claims that they take measures to curb such abuses. Obviously, whatever they are doing, if anything, isn't working.

  49. robin says:

    okay..i'm waiting on a few answers from monavie...but in the interim let me inform you vogel...that you are mistaken (or should i just accuse you of lying?) the more project is MOST CERTAINLY a bonafide 5013c, registered US charity. If you need help looking it up..the town they are based out of is south jordan, utah. check YOUR facts my friend.

  50. Vogel says:

    Well that's swell about the MORE Project finally registering in the U.S. They must have just registered in the last few weeks because they weren't listed on http://www.Guidestar.org a month or so ago. Regardless, they still have not filed an IRS form 990, so I'll point out once again, at the present time there is no way to determine how the donations are being spent.

  51. Felipe says:

    Well guys, Acai is very very popular here in Brazil. It's a common snack for sportists and jiu-jitsu fighters. It's hyper caloric and so, very energetic.
    Anyway, here it's eaten as some kind of Ice Cream. They take the frozen pulp and blend it along with Guarana syrup. Some may also add banana or strawberry. It's delicious, however U$40,00 a bottle is too much!!
    Price differences are normal. In Europe, they pay about 40 euros for a pair of Havaianas flip-flops wich cost about U$4,00 here.

    Well, finally, it's NOT a miraculous drink. It is delicious, it is healthy, but that's it.

  52. Vogel says:

    Robin, it's interesting that the MORE Project finally ended up being registered here in the U.S., but I certainly wasn't lying when I said previously that it was not registered. I checked http://www.guidestar.org just a month or so ago and it did not appear to be listed as a registered U.S. charity, so they may have registered very recently. The MORE Project has been in existence since 2005 and the website was first launched in 2006, but at that time they never stated that it was a 501c registered charity. According to the new version of the MORE website, they were raising funds prior to June 2007, and presumably began doing so in 2005-2006, but apparently they are yet to file the required IRS Form 990 tax return.

    As a result, there still doesn't seem to be any reliable information in the public domain identifying the organization's executives, what the organization actually does, or what they spend their donations on. Until they file a tax return, we have no way of knowing if this charity is reputable, even if it is now U.S.-registered.

  53. Danny says:

    The Monavie product is way too expensive in my country ... so a Monavie distributor can not really build a legitimate business with retail customers.

    If there is no retailing of products then it is essentially a product based pyramid scheme with distributors just consuming the product personally. The focus is on recruiting more and more distributors who also just consume product. Is this a true direct selling MLM business, and a business of integrity?

    The first comments here stated, "the best policy for all your nutrients and anti-oxidants is fresh food, prepared at home. No expensive drink needed. Like Michael Pollan says: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." - and I totally agree.

    If you can get live whole food and organic if possible then you have the best product to feed your body - the way God intended. Real Nutrition. Hard to achieve!

    An industry leader in the health and nutrition field has recently formulated an amazing and unique live whole food powdered drink mix with over 70 ingredients that is lifestyle friendly, convenient and tastes great ... plus is very affordable and able to be retailed so you can develop a legitimate MLM business - focused on the customer!

    Whole Food Nutrition is HOT and Very Lucrative!

    For example one jar of their supreme blend of the world's most nutrient rich fruits and berries sells at USD$49 RRP and makes approx. 180 ounces of all natural reconstituted liquid juice. Compared to USD$160-200 of Monavie juice!

    Monavie juice contains a large amount of water and preservatives such as sodium benzoate. Without preservatives the liquid products could grow bacteria, naturally decompose and become rancid.

    ... but this industry leader in the health and nutrition is able to supply you with natural, non-pasteurized berry & fruit powders with no preservatives or synthetic additives! With an ORAC value of 2,460 per daily minimum suggested use, and their ORAC value is naturally occurring and is not artificially increased through the addition of isolated or synthetic additives.

    This is just one of their many all natural live whole food nutrition products. I suggest everyone checks them out; it's time a company came out with an range of products that are affordable and back to the basics of nutrition – Raw Live Whole foods!

    Say NO to expensive juices and join a new revolution in Whole Food Nutrition!

  54. Carol From Florida says:

    [Editor's note: this person included a URL to their distributor website...]

    Ten Reasons for 'Why MonaVie?'

    Hello! Nothing like telling half the facts plus hearsay from some nay-sayers, of which I used to be one, by the way! Time for rebuttal :-)

    1.) Any MonaVie distributor who is TAUGHT the proper training and DOES it will either GIVE a bottle to try or offer a personal MONEY-BACK GUARANTEE to an enrollee. I've enjoyed the "placebo effect" of twice the energy I've ever had for over a year and softer skin. My husband has enjoyed the "placebo effect" of NO meniscus surgery in his knee for over a year, his allergies virtually went away, and his *very* poor sleep patterns have improved by about 95% since MonaVie. Case closed.

    2.) For a whopping $39 membership fee anyone can enroll and purchase MonaVie for as little as $20-$32. People have no problem enrolling in Sam's or BJ's to get their discounted groceries, case closed.

    3.) ORAC value-MonaVie acai proven by government and independent labs to contain FULL POTENCY of freshly picked berries vs. bandwagon "acai" in name only, case closed.

    4.) *The* guru of acai studies for 10 years even before MonaVie, Dr. Alexander Schauss, promotes MonaVie and nothing else, case closed.

    5.) Nutritious food? Oxymoron. Commercialized agriculture and greed has depleted our soil's nutrients, genetically modified the plants to accept unlimited pesticides, so that our "food" is mostly fiber and water and God only knows what else. *Anything* from the rainforest is better than food from your grocery store.

    6.) Why do you think they came up with vitamin pills in the 60's? You'd have to eat 53 peaches now to get the RDA of Vitamin A from 2 peaches in 1950. Case closed.

    7.) Vitamin pills are practically useless with a few synthetic vitamins and minerals, and poor absorption (10-30% vs. liquid at 100%). Whole foods, organically grown or wild, have thousands of chemicals that work together and we think we can improve on nature. Wrong! Case closed!

    8.) Obnoxious distributors? Don't blame the company or the product. People are people-God bless 'em, from insanely obnoxious to incredibily wonderful. Case closed!

    9.) Part-time income vs. financial drain? Depends! It's a general principle that 20% of the people do 80% of the work. That is true across the board, even in this company. I prefer being in the 20%. It's entirely your choice. I've almost doubled my full-time income as an admissions director in a private school with my little part-time juice income. Case closed!

    10.) Personally, I wouldn't give up the joys we've had in the last year from seeing the health and wealth improvements from this product and company in others and our own family. Yes, it's sometimes a struggle and frustration because with so much spam and sham in the world, it can be hard for people to believe and hope again in a better future. We were there. Thank God we had an ounce of belief left. Thank you, Diane, our neighbor, for sharing MonaVie with us!

    Cheers and blessings,
    Carol-S. Florida

  55. Lazy Man says:

    Carol, it seems like you didn't read the points made previously when you closed the case. Each of these are already well disputed above. If you want to close the case, start with the discussion that's already on-going.

    It looks like the case is still open.

  56. Vogel says:

    "Case closed"? That's a larf! More like "mind closed" by the looks of things.

  57. bridget says:

    A friend told me about Monavie, and I found Vogel's postings very informative. I am surprised that Monvie does not give more information about the contents of its product. I think that consumers willing to pay a hefty fee for Monvie juice have a right to know what they are buying. Also, I think that consumers should know how the clinical studies are conducted so that they can honestly evaluate the results. A good product sells itself.

  58. Jenn says:

    I just joined the discussion and read pretty much everything. I have relatives that drink the stuff and swear by it, so I'm just kind of looking into it. What I'm confused about here is questions/statements to the effect of "they don't tell the ingredients." The ingredients are right on the bottle. I looked at my SimplyNutritious and V8 bottles from the grocery store, and they're labeled exactly the same way. None of them list the "recipe," just the ingredients from greatest to least, like anything else in my refrigerator/cupboard. Acai is the first ingredient, and "juice blend" (with the list of the other 18? fruits in parentheses). Anyway, maybe someone can straighten me out here of what the real question is.

  59. Vogel says:

    The key differences are: (a) V8 doesn't cost $40 a bottle (it's about one-tenth the price) (b) V8 doesn't advertise miraculous benefits attributed to a particular active ingredient (like Monavie's acai) and (c) V8 isn't claimed to cure every disease known to mankind (like Monavie).

    Let's imagine we are talking about cars instead of juices. If a car sells for $20,000, you wouldn't expect to get much than, well - a car. I actually heard a commercial for a cheap car recently where one of the sound bites was "you just put the key in the ignition, and it goes!" That's about all I'd expect for $20,000. But if a car is selling for $200,000, I'd expect that any claims the dealer makes about it can be backed up - and it better be one hell of a car! Does it really do 0 to 60 in under 5 seconds? Does it have a V-12? Are the seats real leather? I'd also want to see reviews from sources like Road and Track (the equivalent for Monavie would be a reputable medical journal), and I certainly wouldn't buy it on the basis of farfetched claims on the company's brochure or from some smooth-talking hustler of a salesman. If a dealer tries to tell me a car on the lot is a Ferrari, it should look like a Ferrari, not a Ford Focus... which brings us back to the subject of Monavie...

    I would expect a $40 a bottle product like Monavie to not only say how much acai (puree and powder) and other juice types it contains, but I would also like to see it stated on the label that it is 100% juice with no preservatives, made organically, preservative- and additive free, and that it provides a significant amount of the recommended daily allowance for many nutrients. Monavie provides no such assurances on the label.

    This all falls under the category of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". Stick with the V8!

  60. Terry says:

    Bridget said it best "A good product sells itself." Over 1 billion dollars in sales in just over three years, must be a good product!
    Has anyone ever seen a Monavie billboard? Personal testimony from people using this product and sharing it with others has generated this income. Anyone can lay claim to the pros/cons or the science/nonscience if that is a word, of this product. Nobody can take away the personal testimony from the people taking this product on a daily basis that generated those kind of sales. My last thought after reading this entire blog. Can anyone show me a product in this country that is not over priced? If you can please list all ingredients, cost of production, insurance cost, advertising, sales, commissions, etc. This info would greatly asist in your proof.

  61. Lazy Man says:

    Remember the personal testimony can be influenced by A) placebo effect or B) bias to sell product.

    I think everyone who has commented on this thread in favor of MonaVie has admitted to being a distributor. Can't get more biased than that.

    There's a difference in making a profit and charging the price of a car for a little bit of juice. Keep reading this blog, and you'll find things that provide proven value.

  62. Terry says:

    Vogel, have you ever seen the V8 t.v commercial, where the people are walking at an angle? Now that is false advertising!!!!

  63. Terry says:

    Lazy man,I can tell you want in Monavie and hoping to find the truth on this blog. I signed on to monavie with no expectations. I told my rep there was no way I would ever sell this product he would be lucky if I even continued taking it. I took the product for 90 days before I ever approached anyone to buy. If the effects of Monavie are placebo, then doctors need to start prescribing placebo and quit killing this country with narcotics!
    Remember it does me no good to be writing this input, you will not buy Monavie from me. On another note, say it was placebo, if it makes you feel better or heals ailments,even if it is in your mind what is wrong with that?

  64. Lazy Man says:

    I haven't seen the V8 commercial, but it's so beyond belief that people might walk at angle that it's not going to change any consumer's opinion. It's just comedy.

    I don't see any obvious comedy in the claims that MonaVie has..

    Terry, you might not make a $1 from this, but many people see it and it does shape their opinion of MonaVie. So perhaps down the line, you could make money from it.

    If MonaVie is just placebo, then you should sell a lower cost placebo, so it doesn't cost people all their money. It's just not socially responsible.

    Terry, I'll make a public deal. Give any and all my readers a 90 day trial (like you took) for free and let them try for themselves. If it's as good as you claim, they'll keep buying from you for life and you'll make commissions for years. It will be win-win.

  65. Terry says:

    Lazyman, if someone pays there $39.00 and becomes a Monavie dealer they recieve a packet of information with 2 DVD's and their own virtual office. At this level Monavie would cost them about $4.00 per day if they take the highest end of the recommended daily dose. Take a look around at what people spend $4.00 a day on. Check with Walmart and see if you can take some of their products off the shelf for 90 days.

  66. Vogel says:

    Regarding personal testimonials, I'd like to add a couple of points to what Lazy Man wrote. Consider the following: (a) consumer protection and health fraud organizations warn consumers specifically to avoid (or at least be very wary of) health products that use testimonials in their advertising; and (b) many products sold using personal testimonials eventually turned out to be fraudulent – in other words, the testimonials must have were rigged, biased, or based on a placebo effect.

    Using Monavie's twisted logic, we as consumers should, rather than be skeptical, believe wholeheartedly in any product that has personal testimonials supporting it - this would include essentially every snake oil product that ever used testimonial advertising. That's clearly bad, self-serving advice and runs counter to commonsense and the guidance from the US government and various consumer protection groups.

  67. sherri says:

    I am waiting for Terry to reply...I want to try it for 90 days free. I promise Terry, if it is what is said, I'll sign up! I'll be very unbiased then.

  68. Lazy Man says:

    Sorry Sherri it looks like Terry replied and didn't take my bait. His reply was caught in my spam filter for some reason.

    Terry, please understand that this site exists to make people aware of that $4 that they are spending each day. David Bach has shown how people can be millionaires by saving that $4 each day. It adds up to $1460 a year. That's a couple of plasma televisions each year. Invested at 8% interest for 25 years it's $9,998.77. If you are 45 that's $10K you could have each year at 70.

    And while I know that people blow $4 each day, the very last thing we need is for people to blow another $4.

  69. Lazy Man says:

    Here is some more information to add fuel to the fire.

    It includes an interesting dispute of ORAC values which backs up my claims that your body can't absorb all those antioxidants anyway.

  70. Vogel says:

    Good find there Lazy Man. This is exactly what I was talking about. ORAC doesn't tell reflect what an antioxidant does when it's in the body, and the test itself is very finicky depending on the solvents and incubation conditions used during sample preparation.

    ORAC will also yield meaningless comparative results if the amount water in a sample isn't accounted for. Monavie claims that their powdered acai has a higher ORAC than other fruits, but fruit contains more than 90% water. Therefore you multiply the ORAC for whole fruit by about 10 when comparing it to a dehydrated sample. When you do that, the results do not support the claim that acai has the highest ORAC.

    I couldn't agree more with your comment about saving $4 a day. That's a substantial amount of money (especially with compound interest). A lot of the people who are being conned into taking Monavie would be much better off spending that money on other health-related expenditures, like better food, a gym membership, or even just squirreling it away for retirement.

    Do the distributors care if some old lady ends up having to eat dog food in her golden years as a result of spending all her money on Monavie? I think we all know the answer to that question.

  71. brigdet says:

    Vogel has a good point about the old lady ending up eating dog food after spending her money on expensive health drinks such as Monavie. I fear that some people will spend their money on Monavie even though they cannot really afford it. They could probably find similar health benefits from much cheaper sources such as fresh organic fruit and juices. If Monavie really is worth such a high price, then, as Vogel points out, we need to know what makes it so special.

  72. robin says:

    hey lazy man ...can you do me a favor. shoot sherri my email address privately and if she really wants to try monavie and report her findings...i'll work something out with her.

  73. Paul says:

    Vogel, so do you believe in anything?; or are you one of those professional skeptics who trudge through life worrying about how someone or something is gonna fraud you.

  74. Lazy Man says:

    Paul, I don't think that's fair. Like has been said before, if it's the price of a V8, then fine maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, no big harm or foul. If you are betting a big chunk of your retirement money on it working, well, we need to have evidence.

  75. Paul says:

    Before I get called out, I'm NOT a distributor. My father is though and I take the Monavie he gives me. I am not a distributor because I'm not a fan of MLM's (or glorified pyramid schemes as I like to call them). I simply don't know enough people or have the network marketing saavy to be successful in that sort of business. My father does. Despite what many distributors will tell you, this is NOT a business for everyone. Like most other MLM's, the majority of people that have a high rate of success are people who already know about running a business in the first place. If you're in the learning process, your money is better spent betting a degree in BA. The testimonials of your "everyday Joe" achieving rapid success are only a small minority of Monavie distributors.

    Now that I got that out of the way, as simply a USER of Monavie, I can attest that the product is very good, and does improve your overall health. I simply feel better after 2 weeks of taking a shot, twice a day. Along with EXERCISE and eating somewhat healthy, I've already lost 15 lbs. Did Monavie help with that? Maybe. The placebo effect isn't always a bad thing, Vogel. You can't knock people for wanting to improve their health, even if it's a placebo. If you want to protest the price of Monavie (which ISN'T $40 for distributors, more like $30), then so be it. But if people have the money, let them do with as they please. As far as V8 goes, yeah it's cheaper. Plus a lot of sodium, and the sodium free tastes like crap. I'll take monavie over V8 low sodium anyday. So even if monavie isn't the micracle product the fanatics are touting it to be, why is it a BAD thing if it makes some, and I stress the word some, people healthy, happy, and wealthy.

  76. Lazy Man says:

    Paul please recognize that this website deals with matters of money. As such, you can't really brush off the money with a "if people have the money, let them spend it." The underlying assumption of anyone visiting this website is that every visitor is looking to maximize the value of their hard-earned dollars.

    "So even if monavie isn't the micracle product the fanatics are touting it to be, why is it a BAD thing if it makes some, and I stress the word some, people healthy, happy, and wealthy." - Because it has the potential to make the vast majority poor and unable to afford proven things that make them healthy, happy, and, of course, wealthy.

  77. Paul says:

    An assumption nonetheless though :). Regardless, I happened upon here looking for information about Monavie being a possible pyramid scam. I'll check out the rest of the site, seems interesting.

  78. Tim says:

    Take your wife and RUN!!!!!!

    She is 'drinking the juice'......LITERALLY.

  79. Vogel says:

    Paul, I have never even remotely "knocked people for wanting to improve their health" - that's a very harsh and intellectually dishonest accusation. The only knocking I've done is of the product itself and of Monavie distributors who lie, deceive, and/or violate U.S. law.

    Nobody is saying that it's a bad thing if Monavie makes SOME people happy (although I suspect it makes at least as many people miserable). But allegedly making some people happy is not a reliable indication of a product's value, nor does it attest to the honesty of the company behind it or the truth of their claims. Crack makes some people happy. Enron made some people happy, once upon a time, as have many other things with zero or negative value.

    If someone wants to drink Monavie and be happy about it, they have my blessing. But distribtors shouldn't claim that it can cure or prevent any diseases, nor should they claim anything else that is illegal, deceptive, or can't be supported with legitimate evidence. Don't claim that a 2 oz shot of Monavie is equivalent to multiple daily servings of real fruit. Don't make unsubstantiated and misleading claims about its antioxidant potency or its value relative to other antioxidant-rich juices or antioxidant supplements.

    Isn't that simple enough? Just say "I like Monavie, it makes some people happy, give me $40" and we won't have a problem. If you want to make specific claims about the product in violation of federal laws and fair advertising regulations, then many people will have a problem with Monavie.

  80. Paul says:

    It's ok, my dad's already making almost a grand a week off the stuff. For those without the business saavy, beware. Vogel if you wanna stop false advertising, you can take on Monavie, for that you have my blessing. Don't stop there though, take on the huge corporations who do the same thing on a larger scale. That is all.

  81. Candace says:

    Hi all, I find this conversation to be extremely interesting and somewhat informative. For over a month and a half now I have been encourage and asked almost daily by a close friend of mine "how we are all doing with our MonaVie". This is a conundrum for me.

    We are currently about 80% organic in our house as far as our diet goes. My children are about 95% organic in their daily dietary intake. We've also removed many chemical products from our home. We don't have health issues that require this, we are simply striving to do better, feel better, live healthier and longer. That being said...at the persistent urging of my close friend we have tried the MonaVie juice. The "purple" bottle for the kids, and the "green" bottle for my husband and I. We have taken the MonaVie, not quite as strictly as recommended, for the past 6 weeks. We have noticed absolutely no positive or negative benefits or side effects. None. Now I have plenty of friends who are extolling the health benefits they are receiving...but we cannot.

    For me, the biggest concern and the thing I take personal issue with is the price. I don't care one rat's behind about the lower price if I were to "sign up" and become a distributor. And here's the reason...let's just play Devil's advocate and say that the juice *only* costs $20.00 USD a bottle at the wholesale price. The recommended dosage for us in this house, family of four, would require us to consume one entire bottle a day. The MonaVie juice is in approximately a 24oz. bottle. We were told the recommended dosage for adults is 3 oz twice a day and for children, 2 oz twice a day. That's 20 ounces of MonaVie juice a day. We KNOW that we will never measure it out accordingly and get it completely accurate, so we'll again play Devil's advocate and say that we drink one bottle of MonaVie in this household every day. At the low, low price of $20.00 a bottle times 30 days a month...HELLO...we are looking at $600.00 a month. Six hundred hard earned dollars a month.

    I take personal offense at this as a.) it seems grossly overpriced, and b.) I was told several times by several different MonaVie distributors that "we all find the money to spend on the things we really want, or there wouldn't be such things as Starbucks, MacDonalds..." etc. In essence they are saying to take that discretionary money I so foolishly spend on "junk" food and redirect my spending towards healthy things, namely MonaVie. I find this offensive as I already do that. We don't eat at fast food places, we rarely eat out at all. I haven't been to a Starbuck's in about 7 years, and that wasn't my choosing, I went with my Mom and didn't order a thing.

    The point is this: there are a lot of us looking into healthy foods, beverages, and supplements. To give us the "typical spiel" that we need to spend the money we so casually blow on garbage on this wonderful miracle cure beverage when we are already carefully watching what we eat and where we spend our apparently unending supply of cash, is a completely ignorant and uninformed way of trying to sweet talk us into giving MonaVie $600.00 a month.

    That's about all I have to say about it. The drink tastes good, my kids like it, but NO, I won't be spending this kind of money on a juice that neither discloses all of it's ingredients nor posts or publishes double blind independent clinical studies of the efficacy of their product and it's touted benefits.

    It just boggles my mind how every time I read or research MonaVie online, no one says what the financial cost will be for a family of a certain number consuming said product. Again, the $600.00 a month for a family of four people is based off of a bottle a day at the price of $20.00 a bottle. Most sites are reporting that the wholesale cost is actually closer to $32.00 USD a bottle. You do the math.
    I have more urgent things to do with my time.

  82. Lazy Man says:

    Nicely said Candace... I just don't think people are going to give up their Starbucks for MonaVie. If they do give up those extra expenses, they should look to invest the money, not replace it with something else.

  83. Candace says:

    Lazy Man, Thank you, and I completely agree with you. It appears one would do as well to eat better in general and to put the 4.00, or for us, the 16.00 a day into some sort of savings/retirement plan or invest it in some other way. Personally, I am surprised at how many people appear to have 200 to 600 dollars (or more!!) a month discretionary income to spend on...dare I say it...juice. :-)

  84. stephanie says:

    "Never laugh at anyone's dreams. People who don't have dreams don't have much."

    Look up Alexander G. Schauss, PhD, FACN....

    http://www.acaibreakthrough.com/

    Here is a list of official papers on Acai:

    http://www.acairesearch.org/Official_Acai_Papers.html

    Here is your double blind study:

    http://www.thejuicefacts.com/pdfs/Dr_Schauss_Double_Blind_Study.pdf

    Here are your ingredients:

    MonaVie contains the following ingredients listed from the most to least common: blend of acai (freeze-dried powder and puree); 100% fruit juice, not from concentrate (white grape, nashi pear, acerola, purple grape, cranberry, passion fruit, apricot, prune, kiwifruit, blueberry, wolfberry, pomegranate, lychee, camu camu); fruit puree (pear, banana, bilberry)and preservatives. MonaVie Active adds d-glucosamine hydrochloride and esterified fatty acids to all of the previous ingredients.

    Mona Vie is a food, not a supplement, not a drug, not a medicine... which is one big reason why it is not backed by pharmaceutical companies, but plain old dr.'s and scientists, and nutritionists, and health specialists.

    Bananas, oranges, apples, and the juices of them do not come with a list of ingredients, they are found in nature....

    Look up tropicana pure premium orange juice's list of ingredients... you get "100% pure orange juice.....

    mona-vie lists ingredients.

    Here if you scroll down you can get PDV:

    http://acaiberrymonavie.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/product_info_page.pdf

    Try researching the 19 different fruits and see what you find... we provide a product that combines them all..... we are trying to do something positive here, multi-level marketing doesn't work for everyone, and there is not a single corporation out there that is going to throw money at you without you having to first earn it.

    there is a lot of opportunity here, and a lot of potential, and a lot of science behind the product itself.

    i can understand though how someone who refers to them self as "lazyman" would have this sort of outlook... its just a shame that you have to think that way... its very negative.

    I'm not really sure what else to give you, if i can use the resources available, so can you... i hope i at least provided some information.

  85. Lazy Man says:

    Stephanie, I mentioned that study in my original post (see the last paragraph). I don't see what new information that you added that wasn't already in the discussion.

    MonaVie's makes medical claims and costs the amount of medicine. That opens itself up to that comparison.

    If you read this site in more detail, you'd realize that I'm not a Lazy Man... it's a joke kind of like how you'd call a big dog Tiny.

    You can say I think negatively, but I'm just looking out for people's wallets. I think that inflicting yet another $120+ product a month on a person (or $600/mo. for a family of four, see Candace's note) is much more negative.

  86. Damian says:

    I find it remarkable to read all these blogs from people who are doing anything to destroy MLM's. My wife and I were approached from a very close, very NON-GREEDY friend. His life is driven by his heart, not his money. yet, I still balked. Took me a month of research. I let me wife try the juice, and three weeks later she stopped taking her arthritis medicine as her pain was gone and she was finally able to curl on her toes in her feet. I have been to three seminars on Monavie, the last one being with the CO-Founder Henry Marsh. One thing he said is that "Monavie does not make medical claims". And they have not. They let the users speak about th eproduct themselves. And there are ALOT of people who drink the juice....WHO ARE NOT DISTRIBUTORS. I do not htink they would drop whatever about of money each month for something unless they believed in it. For you all to be sitting there saying this is a scam, the drink does nothing to you, is unfair. All you are doing is calling the millions that are drinking the juice a bunch of liars. If you don't like the business aspect of the company, or don't like the compensation model, or whatever, that is fine. You don't have to like it. For one person to drink Monavie cost roughly $4.40 a day. Try buying enough fruits to satisfy your recommeded daily servings for that. Not to mention...do you even know how that fruit was proceesed that you just bought. Stop being negative about what others do. if it's not for you, and your approached, all you have to say is "You know, I'm sure its great for you, but it's just not for me. Good luck with it though". To be sitting there behind your little keyboard trying to discredit everyone, sure says alot about who you are.

  87. Lazy Man says:

    Damian, did you read the discussion here? People aren't being negative about MonaVie. They are being positive about wanting to save people $132 a month in a difficult economy. This website is about consumer value, so I can't say "good luck with it" if I believe it to be financially damaging. MonaVie isn't alone in this, I also write about you shouldn't get your spouse a Lexus for the holidays (and how Lexus should stop this advertising).

    I also think it's negative to have the distributors profit from their subjective and potentially biased claims. I'm not against MLM businesses for things that can be measured objectively (Tupperware, Mary Kay, etc.)

  88. Damian says:

    So are you saying in a difficult economy you should not be healthy? The economy is though now because of the scams in the Bear Stearns, Lehman Bros and all the Wall Street gurus sucking money from people. In fact, in the past few years if there should be anybody that we should raise our eyebrows on, it's the financial people. And you say ptentially biased claims. You don't know me, so you assume I am just making it up about any health benefits my wife has had. Don't you think it is unfair to automatically assume is biased? And I have read the discussions...and I have read the word scam come up over and over. That is being negative about a company. I all about saving money...I am also all about being healthy.

  89. Lazy Man says:

    I think that people should be diligent in the health purchases. They should have clinical evidence that MonaVie is digested (and more importantly used) in the body much better than a cheap multivitamin. People should get out for a walk or a jog another free activity. People should read Lazy Man and Health if they want more ideas.

    I think the moment a distributor has something positive to say about his own experience, there's potential for bias. It might even be subconscious. It might be a placebo effect.

    People are commenting here how it did nothing for them. What's their motivation for doing so? What do they have to gain? What do I have to gain by saying that people should save their money? Now what do distributors have to gain with great testimonials?

  90. Damian says:

    Let me first say I appreciate the conversation we are having. I think it's important to hear from both sides of a topic rather than make a rash decision, or conclusion. So I do appreciate the time you take to help inform people.
    You are correct when you say people say it has done nothing for them. Not everybody is made the same way. But that doesn't make the product a scam. And I only keep using the word "Scam" because I read it in so many blogs...this site included. there are people who take tylenol...and it does nothing for them. Then they take advil and it does wonders...does that make tylenol a scam? And your (when I say "your" I am referring to all who disagree wit the product, just necessarily pointed in your direction) also assuming everyone who has a testimony is a distributor. Walking or jogging...excellent forms of activity. Great exercises but you still do not get the nutrients your body needs. I for one...am not a pill popper. I don't like how pills are the answer for everything. I have two austistic sons (high functioning) and that seems to be the answer to everything. But what if...what if the juice caused some of there issues to go away...what if my sons tremors stopped...or their mental awareness improved? So far it is not working on the 4-5 medicines they take twice a day. I'm not saying it has...I started them on the juice a few days ago...so I will not make any false claims. I am hoping I can make some satisfactory claims in the next month or so...but what if it does help? The cost of Monavie is minimal compared to the cost of their health.
    As a parent, I owe it to them to try. its not my job to discredit evey testimonial I here. If nothing changes with them...then I am out o few hundred or whatever...but I have the satisfaction knowing I tried. And then I will try with the next great product that comes out. But this isn't a pill....it's pure fruit. I want them drinking fruit...rather than drinking tegretol, carnitor, abilify, and kepra. You can't put a price behind health. You can argue the business aspect of Monavie...but not the results of the product. And as you said...it might be a placebo effect...then again...it might not be.

  91. Lazy Man says:

    Advil and Tylenol have been medically proven and is regulated by the FDA.

    There's a spot where you can enter a URL for your site as you leave a comment on this site. Most, some 85%, of those who left positive testimonials here also left a link to their distributor site. Thus, I don't think it's a poor assumption.

    If you are against pills, you can blend them with your favorite drink. You don't necessarily have to be a "pill popper." It's just that they are convenient form of delivering medication.

    I wish you luck with MonaVie helping your family. I don't know of any cases of fruit curing or significantly helping autism. Then again, I'm far from an autism expert. I would sooner go to Trader Joe's and grab some organic berries and blend that into juice. It would be cheaper for one. For another, you'd have 100% certainty that it is real fruit... you are manufacturing yourself in your kitchen, not something that has be pre-bottled at a factory. Perhaps it's just me, but the closest thing to fruit, is... well... fruit.

    I understand that you want to try something, but it feels to me like you are clutching at straws hoping something works. If MonaVie doesn't work, then what's next? Maybe some brand of french wine somehow is the fix. Maybe caviar is the cure? You have to try right?

    I argue you can put a price behind health. Most people have some sort of limit to their financial means. Even if you make 300K a year, that's your limit. I would use all that money towards getting the best doctors, getting the best teachers, etc.

    (As an aside, I also wrote Vaccines cause autism?, so can understand why you are a pill popper.)

  92. Damian says:

    Of course Advil and Tylenol are regulated by the FDA. That wasn't my point...I am quite confident you understood the point I was trying to make and whether you think it was a good analogy or not..you should of just stuck with it.
    I have no reason to leave my URL because I am not here to for marketing reasons.
    I haven't clicked on your Vaccine/Autism link yet...but if it has anything to do with linking vaccines to autism I have no need to read it. I've read enough of that and personally I don't believe it..nor do I believe that cavity fillings cause Autism.
    Your comment on me clutching at straws was 100% uncalled for. French wine? Caviar? Thats was a completely ridiculous statement. And I can tell you...being the Director and coach of a Challenger Baseball division, which is for kids with special needs...not one parent would aprreciate a remark like that. But by the way you write and the htings you say...I doubt you care anyway.

  93. shelly says:

    There is only one way to find out if it is a scam...try it. Few people, even sceptics like myself, can refute it's obvious health benefits in only a few days to weeks. My father signed me up, and said I was his most difficult person to sign because the others had simply tried the juice and came to him. I have since began drinking it myself determined to find nothing. Instead I found restful sleep for the first time since my three year old son was born, and enough energy to keep up with him during the day almost immediately and the benefits continue to reveal themselves little by little. I look at it this way, we spend thousands of dollars on healthcare each year and foods that pollute our bodies with artificial ingredients, as well as medicine that often does more harm than good. This is a product made with some of the richest and most potent superfoods found only in nature. I encourage you to find out more and give it a try. Give up some of those daily junkfood poisons and try it.

  94. Alex says:

    hey all you skeptical people out there that think monavie is a scam. this really works. all those other drinks dont work as well at all. and for those to say this business will not succeed because the product is to expensive or what ever else you said about it. just a fact for you. it took Microsoft 7 years to become a billion dollar company. mona vie has done it in 3 and its still getting bigger every day. also another fact! it killed 86% of a leukemia cell in 24 hours. what else can you say has done that??? so keep talken trash and being blindsided and just plain DUMB! this is real. no questions about it.

  95. Damian says:

    Alex...
    I am somewhat in agreement with you..as you can tell if you read my postings...but let's keep the name calling out of it. People do have a right to their opinion...and if it is different than mine...I wouldnt call them dumb. Just like I wouldnt tell someone they are reaching to make their special kids healthy. If Monavie is to be successful...the ditributors and users need to uphold a higher integrity.

  96. Brandi says:

    Hey,

    I'm not sure about all the scam talk and everything above, however...I can speak for myself, as a woman who has had unbearable heavy periods for 3 + years, and doctor's had no explanation for it. My immune system was shot, and I would catch every cold that came my way. A friend of mine simply place MonaVie on my desk and said "Just try it." I did. And I will never look back. It has been an amazing thing for my life, and I could tell the difference immediately (2 days) when I started drinking it. NOt only that, my periods stopped being heavy, something that it hadn't done in over 3 YEARS. Now, I can't SAY, that MonaVie is the reason for it, but I can say...I don't have to worry about not being able to go somewhere because of me periods SINCE I started drinking this. It has been fabulous, and I will become a distributor myself soon I'm sure...if you can find ANYTHING to improve your quality of life...for $30 a week, it is worth it. People spend that much on DVDs, CDs, Fast Food, and much other things...and I am simply putting it back to my health. Try it, then judge it. If it doesn't work for you, then I understand the noninterest, but for those it does, what a life changing event.

  97. Lazy Man says:

    Damian, you said that you have to try anything that might fix the problem. I believe that french wine and/or caviar have as much medical claim as helping autism as MonaVie does. Show me a peer reviewed scientific journal (like New England Journal of Medicine) that says otherwise and I'll retract the statement. I think you get that point that you can't try every possible combination of everything, so at some point you give up on random things, and look to what science says. If the science says that fruit is helpful to people with autism, then why not buy fruit... good wholesome fruit that comes off of a tree, not something in a bottle at a huge expense. As Alex would say, that's probably me being dumb.

    Alex, Enron made well over a billion in revenue... probably even more than in profits. Maybe that's not a viable method for measuring whether a product is helpful. And you know what else kills cancer cells... vitamin C.

    Shelly, only one distributor in this entire discussion is willing to give my readers a three-month sample to try. (I have to check back as to whether that happened). I'd love nothing more than to write a post allowing my reader to try it and report back their findings.

    As for the foods that pollute our bodies, simply avoid them and go with good organic fruit. It is the least processed thing imaginable and very cheap (in comparison to MonaVie).

  98. Damian says:

    I do give my kids fruit and plenty of it. Apparently, the fruit we get at our local stores don't seem to be doing much. And if you do the math, you'll find with the price increses of everything, you'll find that to get the proper nutrients and correct amount of servings you body should have daily will cost more than it would cost to drink Monavie daily. And you will have to retract one statement, if you have that in you, but science does not say that fruit is helpful for people with autism. In fact, science doesn't know that much about autism EXCEPT that now every 1 in 150 kids has it. I wonder if it's the current food we are eating? Or the so-called organic fruit that we get from farms we know nothing about. Nobody knows. And if I am not mistaken...and somebody can back me up here...isnt the fruit in Monavie good wholesome fruit? You can buy fruit at oyu rlocal store...and it's not cheap...only to find it rotten in two-three days. And reading your blogs pretty far back...what excactly is your main argument? That the business model is bad? the juice doesnt work and is not worth buying? That everyone who backs it is fibbing to enhance their business? If it's the money thing, then if someone comes on here and says it has done wonders for them...you need to tell them excellent...keep with it and lets find other ways to budget your money. And you already mentioned to nme in a previous blog, that yuo know of no known cases or never heard of fruit helping people with autism. So how would you recommened I turn to science? There is no science? Therefore....you look at every possible combination and to tell someoen otherwise is completely wrong.

  99. Lazy Man says:

    Well, a Lazy Man and Money reader for the purpose of this argument is someone who has commented on a post prior to me writing this article. If someone does it now, whose to say it's not another distributor posing as a reader. I have no way to track that. I have had at least 2000 feed readers and other people come, so that's a good sample size.

    My argument is all three of your questions. It's very expensive (I can blend my own berry concoction for much cheaper by stopping at Trader Joe's)... It's very unproven via the scientific community... The combination of spending a lot of money on something that is unproven is something I feel I should warn consumers about. That's what consumer advocacy sites do.

    I never said that anyone has fibbed, but I've said that there is bias and there's a very well known phenomenon as the placebo effect. Together they explain the testimonials.

    Good we agree that there's no science, and you are looking for every possible combination. Now you understand where the french wine and caviar come into play. Those are legit combinations to try.

  100. Damian says:

    You want me to give my 10 yr old autistic son French wine and Caviar? Please. You keep mentioning the scientific community. You are aware that they are completely different than the Medical Community.And I will surely take the medical over the scientific anyday. Out of curiosity...Have you tried the juice?

  101. Lazy Man says:

    I think there's as much evidence that French wine and Caviar help as MonaVie. Pick either the academic, scientific, or medical journal of your choice and me something that says otherwise.

    I consider science to be more encompassing than medicine, so when I say scientific community, I include the medical community - at least the medical community that bases their medicine on science.

    My wife, a pharmacist, has tried it (which is what brought this story). I have not been offered any free bottles myself. But since I'm in good medical condition, unless it gives me six-pack abs overnight... what could I possibly expect to gain. I've had this conversation with another distributor and he said, that he has no noticeable changes because he's healthy. He said that there's not likely anything it would do for me.

  102. Damian says:

    Are French Wine and Caviar not outrageously expensive? And when I think of the Scientific Community...I think of the Tom Cruise and Scientology. Are they not the same thing...or two totally different?

  103. Lazy Man says:

    French Wine and Caviar are outrageously expensive, but if they are the cure, then it's money well spent, right? You have to try, or no?

    I'm not an expert on Scientology, but I've gathered it's closer to a religion than anything else. It just has an unfortunate name that leads one to believe that there's science behind it. Maybe there is science behind it, but not every Scientologist is a chemist or a biologist - someone that I would consider in a scientific profession.

    I don't think anyone would confuse Tom Cruise with someone who studies science ;-). Maybe I'm wrong there.

  104. Vogel says:

    Are you serious Damian? Do you really not know the difference between the "Scientology community" and the "scientific community". Not to sound too demeaning, but that might explain why you are so willing to believe that Monavie can be used to treat/cure autism.

    The Monavie boosters are misleading people about the quality of store bought fruit. On the one hand, they claim that fruit is good for us (which is true, as shown in numerous medical studies), but then they also try to tell us that the fruit in our stores isn't good for us – which is flawed logic. The fruit in our stores is the very same fruit that people ate in all of those medical studies that showed it to be good for us. So whatever anyone might say about freshness, pesticides, depleted nutrients in soil, etc. is moot - our ordinary store bought fruit and vegetables have been scientifically tested and proven to be beneficial to health. Is it possible that organic fruits offer even more nutrients and fewer pesticides? Certainly, but it hasn't been conclusively proven and even if it were, that would only make organic better than conventional fruit - it would not mean that conventional fruit is poor quality or that we shouldn't be able to trust it to provide health benefits.

    It is doing the public a great disservice by sending out these negative messages against real fruit, and especially so when an overpriced 2-oz shot of Monavie is being offered as a substitute. Dissuading people from eating whole fruit might needlessly increase their chances of developing a debilitating or fatal disease somewhere down the road, and to add insult to injury, they are being bled financially for this "privilege".

  105. DJ Mona Vie says:

    Mona Vie starts in your mind,
    If you believe it works...it works!
    It works for Me and all of the People I personally know who drink it everyday. If You don't want to spend your MONEY on it...then simply put...DON'T. I am sorry the product does not work for you negative people. You really should just move on now....don't ya think? Some of Us believe in this Gift from the Amazon. Good Luck finding yours.

  106. Lazy Man says:

    DJ Mona Vie, you see why I call it a placebo now, right? If you just believe in a multi-vitamin it works as well... and you get to save a lot of money.

    It's funny how every distributor is saying that I'm being negative, when I stand nothing to gain except for saving people hundreds of thousands of dollars. I'm just trying to help people make the most of their money. If that's being negative, then we are in opposite world.

  107. Mike says:

    This is so strange. I am 40 years old and a firefighter/paramedic. I have taken and have had taken my blood pressure 100's of times. ALWAYS 135 over 85. It has NEVER changed. Started taking Mona Vie for three months. Went in for a check up and guess what? 112 over 65. My doctor flipped. I took it two days later at the fire station. 113 over 67. That is not a placebo effect my friends. I stay healthy so I drink Mona Vie. I just added it to my diet is all. I don't sell the stuff. IT WORKS.

  108. Vogel says:

    OK Mike. Prove it. We have no way of verifying your claim and there is no reason to believe that Monavie lowers blood pressure. It's counterintuitive. Surely you have heard the expression "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

  109. Lazy Man says:

    This is so strange... in April when I wrote this article, there were very few people posting their testimonials. Now there are people posting about the magical cure that it has done for them.

    I will say that everyone should be very careful to make sure they don't consider this actual evidence.

    These are anonymous people on the Internet. On the other hand, I've been doing it for more than years on this site and another one on my health site. This writing is well documented, so you can look at my other writing and decide if I'm not out for your best interests.

    I recommend everyone take the information available in, look for the evidence that speaks to them, think about where the bias may be of that information, and decide on their own.

  110. Paul says:

    You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink Monavie. lol.

  111. Jeremy says:

    I was approached by a monavie salesperson, and I was almost suckered in because she was smokin' hot. But after tasting it and listening to her pitch, I LOL'ed and walked away.

  112. Candace says:

    @ Stephanie, this is not an independent study. This was paid for and influenced by people at Mona.vie. To be valid it needs to be conducted by an independent research facility....a place that has no financial or personal interests in the company known as "Mona.Vie" And then it must be published in a scientific or medical journal...not published in Mona.vie's newsletter.

    @ Brandi, I am glad you've found some relief for your health issues. If it is the Mona.Vie juice, that's great, truly. However...this is the reason for the annoyance here...if you're going to make posts extolling the benefits of said product, you need to be accurate and truthful. If you consume the recommended dosage of Mona.Vie for a week, it will cost you more that 30.00 a week. IF the distributor wholesale cost is *only* 20.00 a bottle, then it will cost you at least 35.12 a week to consume the correct amount of Mona.Vie. And from what I can gather there is a discrepancy in what the distributor cost really is. Some say 32.50 a bottle. I have based my comments on the price of 20.00 a bottle, which is the lowest reported price I could find. All we ask is honesty and truthfulness in Mona.Vie users and distributors comments. Would you care to recalculate your spending on Mona.Vie for us?

    @ Shelly, Your comments are the type I take most personal offense to. I will copy and paste your comment that is unfair and inaccurate when applied as a blanket statement to the general population, here it is: "Give up some of those daily junkfood poisons and try it." This assumes that every person you speak to or type at has a horrid diet, eats nothing but garbage and junk food all day long, every day. We don't. We don't at all. Perhaps those that see the "best" or "biggest" health benefit are those who eat garbage all the time. I have friends who are making incredible health benefit claims, including the lower blood pressure. I've seen the lab results. And you're right, they do eat garbage about 95% of the time. So, perhaps, for people like them, the product helps. I am not one of those people. How long would you tell us we need to continue to spend over 20.00 a day before we see some results, positive or negative? My son says it burns his throat to drink it. I have another friend in his 60s who says the same thing. Other than that, we've not seen one side effect or benefit and we've been drinking it for 6 weeks. We are done. For 600.00 a month we've seen no reason to continue. If you've found health benefits, I sincerely mean this: good for you. May it continue to help you. However, I would ask you to rethink your assumption that all everyone else needs to do is to quit eating "junkfood poisons" and switch to Monavie. We don't all eat "junkfood poisons". Perhaps if you stopped the junkfood poisons altogether you might have the same amazing results you have now...and save yourself the money you're spending on Monavie. Just a thought.
    How's this for a thought from me: Monavie and their distributors will get nowhere telling me to stop the junk food. In fact, it will drive me away, how many Monavie distributors do we have to say this to...stop putting a label on those of us who don't drink the juice...we don't all consume massive amounts of junk food everyday. We don't eat it in this house...and I would imagine there are many more people like me who are already watching their dietary intake carefully.

    And something else that bothers me...with all of these health benefit claims....why is Mona.Vie not labeled "organic"? Anyone??

  113. Vogel says:

    It is not labeled organic because it does not meet the USDA regulations that would allow Monavie to claim the use of organic ingredients - for all intents and purposes, there are no organic ingredients in Monavie.

    The company, however, claims that they do use "some" organic ingredients but that these ingredients are from countries that do not have organic certification programs, or the programs are not recognized in the U.S.

    The bottom line is that if the Monavie label doesn't say that it contains organic ingredients (and it doesn't), consumers should assume that it contains absolutely no organic ingredients whatsoever.

  114. Candace says:

    Thank you, Vogel, that was pretty much the conclusion I had come to as well.

  115. lattimore says:

    This post has depressed me. Vogel and Lazy Man are the only objective people here. If selling a placebo is ok, then i've got a $15 dollar pill that is 4x more powerful than Mon Vie. It has just as many peer reviewed articles as the juice AND has MY OWN PERSONAL ENDORSEMENT. Lattimore dont lie. I also have an extensive line of dowsing rods that people just rave about.

  116. Candace says:

    @lattimore, excuse me??
    Did you even bother to read my posts???

  117. Lazy Man says:

    I think Lattimore just missed them Candace. There are 117 here, and Vogel and I have at least 8 each. I think you have 3 or 4 of really great ones, but it's easy to see how they could get missed in the pile.

  118. lattimore says:

    mea culpa candace. extreme euphoria is a side effect of the pills i sell. i was "trippin" a little and omitted your name. but if i keep taking these pills they will cure my memory problems in no time. I've seen too many people helped to believe otherwise. My mechanic said it helped his libido. I can't help but trust a man who can make a 1984 chevrolet quadra jet carb run like he does. He makes most of my medical decisions.

  119. Candace says:

    LOL @ Lattimore :-))

    True, there are a lot of posts here!
    I think it's great that you began this topic, Lazy Man. If people will read this article and these posts objectively I think they could really help themselves to make an informed decision, not one based on hype, false claims, or scare tactics.

  120. lattimore says:

    now candace, i hate to quote you but,

    I think they could really help themselves to make an informed decision, not one based on hype, false claims, or scare tactics.

    How are gonna people spend money on my super pills if they are wasting it on modern researched medicine. There are alot of people getting help through hospitals and doctors and that is really hurting my faith healing surgery center.

  121. QueenVelveeta says:

    sounds like a scam to me. Just drink water. It's pennies for a bottle fresh out of the tap.

  122. DJ Mona Vie says:

    I personally don't know anyone who eats 9 - 13 fruit and vegie servings a day. Good for you people who do. Some of us happen to live in the Modern world and need supplements to live stronger and healthier lives. If I weren't spending it Mona Vie, I would be spending it on my Doctor's and pharmacies. I would rather drink the JUICE! Since drinking the juice I no longer spend my money on Rockstar and Red Bull or Starbucks...so there!

  123. lattimore says:

    those doctors went to school for several years. they have degrees. their medicine is peer reviewed in major publications. they have done actual scientific studies.

    course you can buy my super pills for at least 5 dollars less than your super juice.

    bourbon costs less than money juice. Jim Beam is distilled and aged in special barrels for 7 years. it only costs 17 and change. how does fruit juice cost more?

  124. Damian says:

    Lazy man, missed your last post to me yesterday. let me first say I never said that I think Monavie could/would treat my son's autism. I simply said to control his tremors and give him more energy as the various drugs that doctors wish to pound in him make him weak, not to mention ruin his mental capicity. AND that...you can not dispute because it is documented that the drugs may stop seizures and stop his behaviors...but ruins the mind. So FORGIVE me for hoping maybe drinking juice may eventually get to stop drinking tegretol and the 4 others. Yes store bought fruits and vegetables may be good...if you dont have to throw them away because of Salmenella (you cant dispute that either)...buy they are nowhere near as nutritious. And they are just as costly.
    Anyway...here is what bugs me about almost every blog here....including yours. No better yet...you people want evidence of anything...if their is anyone out here on this blog that wants evidence, and your in Southern CA...I will be at St. Joseph's Hospital in Orange County on Thurs, Fri, Sat, and Sun of this week while my wife has her uteris taken out. While there...I will introduce you to her doctor who can tell you about taking her off her rheumotoid arthritis medication two weeks after taking Monavie. I will post my website simply for contact info.
    So lets see...the $30 monthly copay for medicine...the $20 monthly copay for the doctors...the time to take off work to go the doctors...the cost of gas...
    You cant tell someone that spends $115 a month a something that keeps them from taking medicine and out of the doctors they are wasting money.
    And yes...the lowest cost is $20 a bottle if you buy in bulk. $32.50 if you buy one case as a distributor...$45 retail.
    And as I said yesterday...there are many people drinking Monavie that are NOT distributors but simply drinkers. What do they have to gain besides good health? Why would they "waste"money if they are not trying to monetarily profit from it? They aren't. but they believe in it. You don't have to believe. Just like we, at least me, will not say your life will suffer from not drinking it. Anyway..it gets anooying that everytime it seems like people get on those who dont believe, just like those who do believe get on those who dont. What a sad world.

  125. Damian says:

    I screwed up my last sentence...(thats what happens when I should be working instead of blogging) Sorry...People who do believe get on those who don't, and people who don't believe get on those who do.

  126. lattimore says:

    damian

    how nutritious is this monkey juice? what are the percent of daily% things you see on other juices.

    emperical data doesnt exist in your world does it?

    The non believer arguement is weak. Why dont you believe in my super pills? They'll fix anything you feel might be better after you take them. Probably prevent bear attacks too.

    You've only been asked to prove something taken as medicine is effective (no test needed to know its expensive). Your wife's uterus is the only thing that this monk juice hasn't been touted as fixing. I don't ask any more from things like tegretol. Tegretol usually has a list of side effects and warnings with it when you pick it up at the pharmacy. Why is this miracle drug afraid of having some real tests, proving me wrong, making an astronomical amount of money for a panacea, and running my super pill business in the ground?

  127. lattimore says:

    i apologize for the antagonistic tone of my comments.

    i saw a man tell someone that this mohave juice would help his daughters MS. These people did not have the money to waste on this as they were already strapped for cash. That's why this has become my pet peeve. If its too good to be true it is.

    unless its my super pills.
    now confirmed to stop bear attacks

  128. Lazy Man says:

    I realize that Lattimore is being sarcastic, but his logic is as sound as MonaVie's. He could post on here with 5 different people as to how it stopped bear attacks. We don't need evidence as we'd have testimonials. I'm betting those people wouldn't have to lie either, because they likely haven't been attacked by a bear (at least while using his pill).

    There's no doubt about it that it's much cheaper to buy your fruit and vegetables. And there's no way that MonaVie could be as nutritious as we know that the best is the least processing. You can't get any less processed than a fruit.

    Yes, there's a risk of Salmonella, but there's an equal risk of that in MonaVie. It's not like MonaVie is imported from Planet Fairy Dust where Salmonella doesn't exist.

    DJ Mona Vie, if you have time to take and measure MonaVie, you have time to eat some berries. It's not like it takes a long time.

  129. DJ Mona Vie says:

    So You are eating these fruits from the Amazon everyday?
    Acai Berry
    Pomegranate
    Bilberry
    Passion Fruit
    Wolfberry
    Blueberry
    Kiwi
    Cranberry
    Apricot
    Prune
    Nashi
    Aronia
    Camu Camu
    Acerola
    Banana
    Pear
    Lychee
    White Grape
    Purple Grape
    Fruits

    The Acai Berry
    With 10 times the antioxidants of grapes and twice the antioxidants of blueberries, the Brazilian Acai berry (AH-sci-EE) is considered to have the best nutritional value of any fruit on earth. With the symmetry of a grape and the size of a giant blueberry, the Acai fruit tastes a bit like wild raspberry with a hint of grape. Most people have trouble putting their finger on the taste because it's so different.

    The Acai Berry is a dense source of a particular class of flavonoids called anthocyanins. Acai Berry's ORAC value (a measure of its antioxidant properties), is higher than any other edible berry on the planet.

    The Acai Palm is a tall slender South American (concentrated in Brazil, Guyana, Suriname) palm grown for its fruit as well as for the "cabbage" (the cluster of new leaves more commonly called the "heart of palm"). It prefers swampy areas, and grows quickly. The fronds were (and still are) used for thatching and weaving. Each Acai palm tree produces small deep purple, almost black, fruit (berries) in groups of 3-8 per bunch. The fruit is edible, and its pulp is used in wines, liqueurs, as flavoring, as colorant, and on its own as a juice.
    I am...and I know the nutrition is there!
    My 85 year old Mother swears by it so all of you unbelievers get educated or find another product to debate, or simply just drink Mona Vie and see for yourselves. If you don't like it...don't drink it!

  130. Lazy Man says:

    DJ Mona Vie, see comment #70 before we get excited about the Acai berry and/or ORAC values. It's already been debated and debunked by doctors. Maybe we can debate whether the doctors know their stuff, but the logic makes sense.

  131. Ed Cunningham says:

    It sounds like you need to do some research on Network Marketing. A long list of major US corporations are using network marketing to get products to the public. Network marketing is the most effective and efficient way to sell a good product. Colleges accross America are now teaching it.

    I personally am not invloved in network marketing, however, I always listen to those opportunites. They are real businesses that require hard work to be successful...just like anything else.

  132. Lazy Man says:

    Ed, is this comment directed towards me? I've done the research for network marketing. I have no problem with it as long as the product has some kind of proof that it does work. I know that Tupperware keeps food fresh longer than if I just put it in my fridge in nothing. This can be scientifically shown to be objectively true. I know that Mary Kay blush changes the color of my wife's cheekbones. Again this is obvious to any observer.

    MonaVie's claims are subjective and not proven by the well established medical community. As Lattimore put it, he has a super pill that does the same thing, but it's cheaper. Network Marketing doesn't validate the product. However, it is great for things that can't be proven like Lattimore's pill... or MonaVie.

  133. Vogel says:

    Agreed Lazy Man.

    Ed, the criticism of Monavie is not based primarily on the fact that it is an MLM, although such a distribution method does seem to lend itself well to keeping products like Monavie, which rely on misleading, outlandish, and unproven claims, off the radar.

    That being said, one should still be careful about too far out on a limb in defense of MLM, as you did with your comment that "network marketing is the most effective and efficient way to sell a good product". MLM is not widely regarded as an efficient business model; in fact quite the opposite. MLMs can't come close to competing with big box stores, like Walmart and Home Depot for example, which consolidate resources and costs to keep prices low and efficiency high. This is why the vast majority of companies sell their products using conventional retail business models. I don't think you will find a single MLM company in the Fortune 500, so there really is no basis in fact for the exaggerated claims you made about the efficiency and success of MLM.

  134. Robert says:

    Mona vie is a 100% scam! Speaking from experience. The company is not about the product. It's about how many people can you scam into scamming other people to scam. That's it. Never mind the product it sucks. I drank it for 3 months then stopped wasting my money and just sold and scammed people into doing this. I still have a Mona vie account and still make a little with it. But for the record it is not a good idea. You have one leg that is your "strong leg", that leg is the one you will get help on from the people above you. The other leg you "weak leg" is the one you actually get paid on. The people you personally recruit go under this leg, and this is the leg you get paid off of. In order to get paid the full % illegible though you half to be on auto ship for like over $250 worth of product just for yourself. So for the guys that say"oh, well it only cost $40 dollars to get started" ...BS. So all together to get into this it's like $300. Plus if you really want it to be a business, you will need to BUY from monavie broachers and other literature for you customers. You will want a trendy decal for your SUV too. $100. On and ON!! All together I've spent over $2000 on this crap. No big deal, but as far as quitting my job and doing this full time, not going to happen. For every five people you scam into doing this maybe one will actually have the money or drive to keep it going long enough to make you some money. (They also have to be on that $250 auto ship too in order for you to make a penny off them) In addition to the pyramid based pay structure you are trying to sell a $40 bottle of juice(or 32.50). With the Economy the way it is this is nearly impossible. People don't care if it makes them feel healthy for $250 dollars a month. SCAM!!!STAY AWAY!!

  135. Damian says:

    Robert,
    I'm with you. I can't believe I bought into Monavie only to find it is a pyramid pay structure...albeit better than most MLM. I am so pissed right now. When I get hom eI am calling my upline and I am done. Then tomorrow I am off to my job again, to make my higher up bosses more money.
    Come on people!!!!!!!!! Where do you think the pyramid type pay comes from? Corporate America, thats where. You go to work everyday...you make the same amount of money and if your lucky you get your 3% raise once a year...while your bosses (upline) make bonuses and cash in on your hard work. If you don't like the product, then don't drink the product. But to call it a scam is completely ridicuous. Every flippin job works the same way...the lower man on the pole gets less pay and works hard while the CEO's and the CFO's and whoever else get lucrative bonuses.
    BTW...nobody on my offer to show some solid evidence that Monavie works for the body? Or is it your too stubborn to be proven wrong. And Robert...you stated you quit drinking the juice and just sold it and scammed people? You are the type that is giving MLM's a bad name. if you can't support the product then stay away. We don't need a new brand of used-car salesmen in this business.

  136. Damian says:

    ummmm....just wondering...is AVON an MLM company? Not to mention Andrea Jung is one of the most powerful woman in business.

  137. Lazy Man says:

    I don't know if Avon is or not MLM by the technical definition... I think Mary Kay and Tupperware are by the technical definition. I have stated why those businesses are different (easily objective, observable, proven results) vs. MonaVie and Lattimore's super pill. The distribution method doesn't make the product suddenly useful.

    I suppose I could have a MLM company that sold pet rocks. Pet Rocks did quite a few sales in the past as well. It doesn't mean that it's a good value for people's money. It doesn't mean that pet rock serves a function.

  138. Damian says:

    I was just correcting you Lazyman. AVON is an MLM company...and highly successful...and #264 (or close to it) on the Fortune 500. So yes...there is an MLM on the Fortune 500 list. By technical definition, they are considered an MLM.
    So now I am curious...your little pet rock reference got me thinking...what exactly is you definition of "a good value for people's money"?

  139. Lazy Man says:

    I never said that Avon wasn't an MLM company or that one wasn't in the Fortune 500. You might be confusing me with Vogel. I simply said that an MLM business model doesn't make the company's product a valid one.

    Everyone's definition of good value for people's money will differ. The best answer is the Supreme Court's definition of porn. I know it when I see it. Would you buy a broken down Yugo for $2 million? How many people would consider that a "good value for the money?"

    If you want see some examples of what I consider good value for money see 15 Products that Save Time, Money, and Space.

  140. Damian says:

    Not a bad list....could have a goo ddiscussion on a couple...but for now...I retract my previous statement on the Fortune 500...it should have been directed at Vogel, not you.

  141. Vogel says:

    So there is ONE MLM among the Fortune 500. The fact that 1 out of 500 companies (0.2%) on the Fortune list are MLMs doesn't justify Ed's comment that "MLM is the most effective and efficient way to sell a good product?" My point to Ed was that, MLM is not widely recognized as an effective or efficient way to sell products and that the vast majority of successful companies in the U.S. are based on conventional retail models rather than MLM.

    The MLM concept is not new - it has been around for decades - and if it were superior to conventional business models, it would be reflected in the Fortune 500 list. It isn't. In contrast, Internet selling is a relatively new concept but it really is effective and efficient, which is why it has gone from obscurity to universal prevalence in less than a decade.

    But as Lazy Man points out, the issue is not about whether or not MLMs are valid; it's that the claims about Monavie are exaggerated, unverified/unverifiable, and quite often illegal. There is still no evidence that Monavie's $40 a bottle price tag (thousands of dollars per year) is a worthwhile investment, and every indication so far suggests that it isn't.

  142. Vogel says:

    Buying a pet rock for a buck or two because you think it's a funny gag may be a waste of money but it's not completely unreasonable. Buying it because you think it is a real pet or that it has magical healing powers would be quite ridiculous, and doing that every day until you had spent several thousands of dollars would be bordering on insane. A pet rock is what it advertises to be - a rock – and it is not financially draining. Monavie costs a small fortune, and distributors are making unproven and implausible claims that it can cure cancer and eliminate the need to eat whole fruit.

  143. DJ Mona Vie says:

    Either you spend the money on your health now...or you WILL spend it later. That is the FACT. Why is that people can spend thousands of dollars on Brand name clothing, but when it comes to something healthy, it is considered a scam. Educate yourself on the product in question here, perhaps you too might learn something. No wonder you have a negative attitude, your not drinking Mona Vie!

  144. Lazy Man says:

    No one is arguing that people shouldn't spend money on their health... just that they should spend it on things that are actually proven to be healthy.

    You can spend it judiciously as well. Getting certain check-ups at certain times is considered healthy. Going to the doctor every day for a year for the same exam probably isn't a good use of money.

    I don't endorse brand name clothing either. However it does what is expected of it... it performs the duties of a shirt, covering you, keeping you warm and presentable. It might even perform an extra duty of making your friends jealous (if you care about that sort of thing).

    Remember I'm not drinking MonaVie because a distributor recommended I didn't as I'm in good health already.

    And there's no negative attitudes here... I'm be pro-consumer... looking out for their hard earned dollar.

    If there's a car that's a real lemon - it doesn't drive for instance - you'd want me to write about that and make you aware of it before you waste your money on it. Is that a negative attitude towards the car company, or just someone trying to help out the average Joe. I like to look at it as a positive attitude, trying to help out the average Joe.

    I guess if you work for the faulty car company, I have a negative attitude. Now I understand your point of view DJ Mona Vie. Continue to see my attitude as negative, it only validates what I'm saying.

  145. Robert says:

    Wow!! So it's healthy. So what. That's not the point. If you're in Mona vie, and I mean really in it, your tiring to make money. And to do that you have to get others to get others to do this. (Where the term "SCAM" comes in!) Ok but you are comparing this product to things that people can actually use. I have done my research on this product. Its all opinion. No fact! I have been in the MONA VIE Scam for a long time. I'm just being honest. It does nothing for my wife or I, or my mother or my grandmother or my best friend's family. Or anyone I know, that is not going to flat out lie to me, to brain wash me into "believing in the product". The mona vie people say "believe in the product and the money will come". But believing in the product does not work because its an over priced acai juice that dose nothing. You can buy acai by the 5 gallon bucket and mix it into a smoothie for about $25 dollars. That should last you about 6 months. Be real. This thing only sounds good in a meeting with a bunch of hopped up mona vie drinkers trying to brain wash new Mona vie prospects to do the same. A real job is not the same as Mona vie at all. I get a pay check every two weeks. I get promoted every 2 years or so. Normal stuff like that. I don't have to give my boss money to learn about the product. CULT / SCAM-still say SCAM!!!!

  146. lattimore says:

    Yes!!! i am now bringing to the market my new improved super pills. the have 4x the super and 2x the awesome in every pill. Thats like 250x more super and awesome than anything else can deliver.

    If you start taking my super pills every day i'll cut you a deal on these. $14.50usd a piece. the retail for $50 a piece because of the elevated levels of awesome our proprietary process injects into the pills. If you take a bottle of these a month you can get the dealer price. You are now a dealer not some lowly consumer, end consumers are chumps. Now all you have to do is get all your friends to do the same thing. Just tell them how much awesome is in these pills and they sell themselves. Tell your friends they wont need to spend money on anything they ever considered super and or awesome, the pills have it all covered. You could easily spend $800 a month on all the different awesome and super things you come across in a month. The new super pills have all that awesome and more for only $700 a month. Get to selling soon you'll be knee deep in awesome and cash.

    ps: just make sure all your friends get in on this super secret just released deal. we can make some big money if we all work together.

  147. lattimore says:

    Yes!!! i am now bringing to the market my new improved super pills. the have 4x the super and 2x the awesome in every pill. Thats like 250x more super and awesome than anything else can deliver.

    If you start taking my super pills every day i'll cut you a deal on these. $14.50usd a piece. the retail for $50 a piece because of the elevated levels of awesome. our proprietary process injects into the pills. If you take a bottle of these a month you can get the dealer price. You are now a dealer not some lowly consumer, end consumers are chumps. Now all you have to do is get all your friends to do the same thing. Just tell them how much awesome is in these pills and they sell themselves. Tell your friends they wont need to spend money on anything they ever considered super and or awesome, the pills have it all covered. You could easily spend $800 a month on all the different awesome and super things you come across in a month. The new super pills have all that awesome and more for only $700 a month. Get to selling soon you'll be knee deep in awesome and cash.

    ps: just make sure all your friends get in on this super secret just released deal. we can make some big money if we all work together.

  148. Robert says:

    What? Hell no!! Ive already seen the pills and its the same story. Buttom line pyrimid scams are terrible. Stay AWAY!!

  149. lattimore says:

    you've obviously not taken the pills. They make you feel at least 40 years younger. If you're under 40 it will put you in the top .00001% of healthy people ever known to exist. With no hesitation i say this will make you Bill Brasky strong. And its not a scheme!!! Robert, people like you are whats wrong with america. Why cant a hard working entrepeneur like me sell my super pills to a waiting public? The masses have spoken and the scientific process is old news. Only the drug companys want you to believe double blind peer reviewed studies have merit. YOU SHEEP. Step out of the box and fly around the world with my super pills....dont forget the new formula has more awesome and super while having all the bear repellant powers of the original

  150. Vogel says:

    Robert, Lattimore is just using this humorous analogy to illustrate the absurdity of Monavie's testimonials. I must say though that his pills sound like a better deal than Monavie...less expensive and a much higher content of "awesomeness" :)

  151. lattimore says:

    first my product contains "awesome". "Awesomeness" is a cheap derivitive of my product. An industrial byproduct per say. It is stripped of all essential ingredients during processing. Not that i dont have to process my awesome, but i do it with an awesome process.

    All reputable business rely on your friends. Where would Ben be without Jerry? Johnson without Johnson? Dave sans Buster?

    Everyone needs to get their friends and loved ones to help start their business.

    Who better to share the gift of awesome(patent pending)? If you use our proprietary algorythm you will be making money in no time. We offer an easy to understand 48 part system to figure your income. Hourly wages or profit versus cost are out dated ways of figuring the staggering wealth my pills will bring you. Once your fourth quandrant is past the eighth meridian...look out!!!!! You are about to make some serious money while making everyone you know safe from bears.

    I predict in the next 2 monthes all forms of commerce will be using this system. Get on board before everyone else so you will never ever have to work again.

  152. DJ Mona Vie says:

    Pills...more pills! It has been PROVEN that pills do not break down the way a liquid does. I will stick to pure, unfiltered Acai juice from the Amazon where the world is still pure. Keep your pills, and please stop bad mouthing my juice to sell your pills. If you want to sell your pills, then be straight up and talk about your product, not how Mona Vie is a scam. That is terrible advertising on your part! No wonder they are cheaper...but definatly not more awesome than Mona Vie.

  153. lattimore says:

    All you juicies are alike. spreading lies about the super pill. Has your juice had a BBDBAS (Bill Brasky Double Blind Awesome Study)? show me the solid science behind it. Juice that costs $40 for 750ml should have obvious effects, beside poverty. Spend $15 with my super pills and get a level of awesome that would be lethal to anyone not on my pills.

  154. Lazy Man says:

    Lattimore, is there a chance you could develop your awesome pill process into an awesome liquid? My initial thought is that you crush them up and put them in a cranberry juice or something.

    DJ Mona Vie, if a product is really potent you'd want it to be in pill form so it can delay it's release and it's benefit over time so that the body can take absorb it all.

  155. lattimore says:

    we tried to liquidize our awesome pills before. due to an unforseen accident we closed down that part of the plant and welded the doors and windows shut there.

    It was just TOO awesome. People would become dependent on the high awesome levels in the liquid form. I can't be held accountable for a new wave of homeless when people quit their jobs to drink in awesome all day. i'd never get my frame dynamics to coincide with my peripheral
    flow on my income spreadsheets. everyone knows you cant run a business like that

  156. Vogel says:

    The one obstacle I see standing in the path of Lattimore's Awesome Pills is that the FDA and the medical establishment will try to suppress them. They are all conspiring to keep us not awesome so that they continue to profit from our awesomelessness. They have probably already discovered a cure for awesomelessness but they just won't tell us about it because it would hurt their bottom line.

  157. DJ Mona Vie says:

    Who is Bill Brasky? Is He a Doctor? Scientist? Please introduce to your website so that I can check out these "Super Pills" myself. I have read and re-read this website and all I have read are the negatives of Mona Vie...what about your "Amazing Super Pills"? I want to see facts. Thanks

  158. Vogel says:

    DJ, you might want to consider cutting back on your Monavie dose. It seems to be causing cognitive impairment.

  159. DJ Mona Vie says:

    Oh that...I did read it...thanks anyway. Best Wishes on your Pills. No more time to waste on this site.

  160. Candace says:

    ahhh, DJ MonaVie, now you're getting it...here's your quote:"I want to see facts."
    That's what we've been trying to say to you in reverse...we want to see facts about MonaVie. So far the information provided by all the Pro-MonaVie posters is a bunch of info that the company, MonaVie, publishes itself.
    And to that we all say...."We want to see the facts."

  161. DJ Mona Vie says:

    The acai used by MonaVie is certified organic through The Institute for Marketecology (IMO). IMO is one of the first and most renowned international agencies for inspection, certification, and quality assurance of eco-friendly products. IMO's worldwide activities are accredited by the Swiss Accreditation Service (SAS), according to EN 45011 (ISO 65), which is the international standard for organic certification.

  162. DJ Mona Vie says:

    I will show ya mine if ya show me yours...
    I have the facts...and they go on for days....

  163. DJ Mona Vie says:

    MonaVie uses 100% Pure Acai (freeze dried and pulp)

    Our products contain freeze dried acai and frozen puree (pulp) that are processed within 24 to 48 hours to maintain their nutrient composition

    The freeze dried acai used by MonaVie is patent pending

    None of the acai used in MonaVie is air dried or spray dried—these processes significantly reduce the antioxidant quality of acai

    MonaVie products are made under strict GMPs (Good Manufacturing Practices) established by the Food and Drug Administration

    MonaVie products are tested by independent laboratories to guarantee quality, purity, and freshness

    MonaVie Active and Original have been tested by the World Anti-doping Agency (WADA) to ensure they are free of any banned substances

    MonaVie's acai is processed in an ISO 22000 certified facility to help ensure its superior quality

    MonaVie products are AIB (American Institute of Baking) certified and approved

    They are HACCP (Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point) compliant—another method implemented to ensure safety and quality

    Our juice products are made in a FDA certified bottling facility

  164. DJ Mona Vie says:

    Nutrients found in Acai Berry (Freeze-dried and Pulp) (This is before processing)

    The Acai berry contains the following vitamins, minerals, & nutrients:

    Vitamin A (as beta carotene)
    Vitamin B-3 (as niacin)
    Magnesium

    Vitamin C (as ascorbate ion)
    Calcium
    Phosphorus

    Vitamin E (as alpha tocopherol)
    Copper
    Potassium

    Vitamin B-1 (as thiamin)
    Iron
    Sodium

    Vitamin B-2 (as riboflavin)
    Zinc
    Sterols, Beta-sitosterol

    The vitamins and minerals listed above are found in the finished MonaVie product, but the levels of some are too low to list on the label. In order to list a vitamin or mineral on the label, there must be 2% or more of the recommended Daily Value per 1 ounce serving.

    References:

    Schauss AG, Wu X, Prior RL, Ou B, Patel D, Huang D, Kababick JP. Phytochemical and nutrient composition of the freeze-dried Amazonian palm berry, Euterpe oleraceae mart. (acai).
    J Agric Food Chem. 2006 Nov 1;54(22):8598-603.

    Here is some general information about vitamins and minerals:

    There are two classes of vitamins: water soluble and fat soluble. Water soluble vitamins included most B vitamins and Vitamin C. When a person consumes these vitamins, the body will use what it needs and excrete the rest. They body does not store these vitamins well and that is why there is a set amount recommended to consume every day (this is true for all B Vitamins but Vitamin B6 which the body will store).

    The other class of vitamins, fat soluble, includes vitamins D, E, K, and A. These vitamins are easily stored by the body and if a person takes too much (only attainable through supplementation and not diet alone), they can risk toxicity because the body does not have an effective way to discard excess of these vitamins if necessary. I have listed the Recommended Daily Intakes (RDIs) for each of the vitamins below for your reference.

    · Folate (Folic Acid, Folacin) 400 micrograms/day

    · Niacin (Nicotenic Acid, nicotinamide, or B3) 16mg/day

    · Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 1.3 mg/day

    · Thiamin (Vitamin B1) 1.2 mg/day

    · Vitamin A 900 micrograms/day. Do not consume over 3,000 micrograms/day for extended periods of time

    · Vitamin E (alpha-tocopherol) 15 mg/day. Do not consume more than 1000mg/day for extended periods of time

    · B6 1.3 mg/day. Do not consume over 100 mg/day for extended periods of time

    · B12 2.4mg/day.

    · Vitamin C 60 mg/day.

    · Vitamin D 5 micrograms/day. Do not consume more than 50 micrograms/day for extended periods of time.

    · Phosphorus 700mg/day. Do not consume more than 4000mg/day

    · Magnesium 350mg/day

    · Calcium 1000mg/day. Do not consume over 2500mg/day

    · Potassium 4.7g/day.

    .

  165. Lazy Man says:

    I searched the PDF located at IMO's website and found no mention of MonaVie. Maybe the PDF search is broken. Can you point me in detail on where in IMO's website it says that MonaVie is certified.

    Also, it was mentioned that it's not certified organic for the US (or at least not labeled as such). Perhaps we can find out why that is.

  166. Vogel says:

    DJ, even if the acai in Monavie is organic (and it doesn't appear to be because it has no IMO certification on the label to prove it), there is no evidence that anything else in Monavie is organic. One possible organic ingredient out of 19 isn't very organic is it?

    You also seem to be missing another key point here. No one has asked for information about acai; we are asking for information about the ingredient amounts in Monavie. Even if acai were the most nutritious fruit on the planet, if there's only a gram or so in a bottle of Monavie, then consumers wouldn't be getting good value for their money.

    The information you provided didn't even list the amounts of nutrients in acai, so pasting the U.S. recommended daily allowances is pointless because there is no frame of reference for comparison with acai or Monavie. Lastly, the nutrients you mentioned that were in acai are in the unprocessed fruit. There is no evidence that all of these nutrients are retained in the processed acai that is used in Monavie.

  167. George says:

    LazyMan posted:
    "People aren't being negative about MonaVie. They are being positive about wanting to save people $132 a month in a difficult economy."

    A gentleman I met was spending $300 per month on Ambien and Lipitor. Since drinking MonaVie, he sleeps better and his cholesterol went down 60 points. He no longer spends $300 on meds. So if my math is correct, his $132 on MonaVie is saving him $168 per month and his quality of life has improved.

    And BTW, I have read and spoke with several folks who have seen dramatic drops in cholesterol numbers. Not sure how that happens with a placebo.

  168. Lazy Man says:

    Again, another testimonial. I'd like to talk to this gentleman's doctor. Clearly this doctor must be working to write up MonaVie in all the medical journals. I mean if he's found a cheaper way to cure insomnia and high cholesterol, he's going to be one of the richest men in the United States.

    For one, you can buy generic Ambien at a cost of $41 for a 3 month supply.

    Second, I'd love to be there when the doctor said, "You know, I'm going to take you off this Lipitor thing. I'm going to instead put you on MonaVie."

    By more than a few MonaVie proponents' logic above, the $12.7 Billion in sales of Lipitor makes it a better product. That's what I've been hearing with MonaVie's 1 billion in sales.

    I think there are millions of cases of Lipitor lowering someone's cholesterol, all published in medical journals.

  169. George says:

    Haha. Like a doctor is going to prescribe MonaVie! Too funny. Why would they ever do that? They get paid by the drug companies and push all those delicious drugs that have wonderful side effects which you need to take other drugs to counteract. And now they market directly to the end use so we can ask our doctor about the boner medicine that my 8 year old has to see commercials for 10 times each night on TV.

    Actually, there are a few doctors/chiropractors selling MonaVie in our area that I have come across.

    And to clarify, MonaVie is a FOOD, not a drug. So comparing the sales of the two products doesn't make much sense.

  170. Candace says:

    George, I will quote you here..."And to clarify, MonaVie is a FOOD, not a drug. So comparing the sales of the two products doesn't make much sense."

    Correct you are. That's why it is troublesome when MonaVie distributors make health improvement statements which cannot be validated. MonaVie distributors (and the company by proxy) have then placed themselves in this precarious position of comparing the two...food and drugs. Monavie distributors and by proxy, the company, have opened themselves up to this by making claims that one's health will be greatly improved, medications can be stopped, etc, just by drinking this miracle juice.

    Personally I do not invalidate the idea that eating correctly, drinking correctly, exercising properly can all improve one's general health, however, to make claims that people can now drink MonaVie instead of taking heart medications, diabetes medications, cholesterol medications, etc is a very dangerous position to take without having these claims backed by independent studies and medical researchers. (And again, for the record, DJ MonaVie and whomever else is still confused by this, an independent study is one done by a reputable research company that has NO financial or personal involvement with MonaVie WHATSOEVER, and is then reviewed, approved, and published in a medical or scientific journal).

    My stance is this....for any of you...but let's take the example of the man spending $300.00 per month on Lipitor and Ambien, I wonder, and I bet so does the medical community, how much his cholesterol would have lowered were he to consume organic fruits and vegetables, stop eating processed foods, and clean up his diet on his own, without drinking MonaVie. And there's the rub...by changing his lifestyle he could have the same positive results (theoretically) and save himself the cost of the Ambien, Lipitor, AND the MonaVie.

    Just a thought from a completely different perspective.

    I am not saying the juice is "bad". Far from it, it may be wonderful juice, however, there needs to be some serious in depth independent studies showing and proving the health benefits of this juice and proving the reasons for the grossly inflated cost of the product.
    It better be liquid gold to be worth the price they are charging. Were the juice $10.00 a bottle, and I mean retail price, it would still be expensive, but much more reasonable.
    For the price to be what it is, and the miraculous health benefit claims to be what they are, there needs to be some accounting taken of what exactly is in the juice, what concentrations, and actual proof of the health benefits people are claiming.

    And that info cannot come from MonaVie or some distributor's website.

    By the way, I am wondering if MonaVie would have paid for my doctor's visit...last week opening up that ridiculous metal cap on the top of the MonaVie bottle, I sliced my finger open from fingernail to middle knuckle. Not a scratch, either, a cut that maybe should have taken stitches. I drank my kids' MonaVie after that to see if the wound would seal shut...but it did not. (that was humor for those of you who seem to be challenged in that department lately). And, FYI for those of you who won't read my previous posts, yes we had a couple bottes of MonaVie left from our trial period of the juice, and my kids are finishing those off, and no, after over 6 weeks on it, they have had no positive benefits that I can tell or physically see or notice.

  171. Lazy Man says:

    George, I'm sure there's a lot more money for the doctor if he can come up with a more cost effective replacement for Ambien and Lipitor.

    It would be the medical breakthrough of the millennium. Since Lipitor sales were 12B+ alone, I'm sure the doctor who comes up with that breakthrough would be much richer than what the drug companies are paying him now.

    I think it goes back to what Candace said, we don't know if this person was eating right to begin with. That's why testimonials mean nothing. All evidence shows that he could have had the same effect by actually eating fruit instead... and save money in the process.

  172. George says:

    Yes, this is a touchy subject with claims. Some people don't communicate properly. The presentation I went to last week stated:
    "MonaVie is a food, not a Drug and is not intended to treat, cure, prevent or diagnose any disease."

    I think this is proper in its approach. When people tell their individual stories of how their aches and pains went away, and how the product made them feel better, that is their personal claim, not the company's. You have to take it for what its worth. My wife started drinking it and her weekly migraines subsided.
    No other lifestyle changes were made. We will see over time what happens, perhaps it was a placebo effect. Time will tell.

    Personally, I have had high cholesterol for many years. I was put on Crestor and in month 3 I had a bad muscle reaction and could not even move for a few days. Had to stop it. Told the Dr. that I would try to lower it naturally. Well of course that never happened. I have been drinking MV for 4 weeks now and plan to go for a blood test next week. We all know how hard it is to lower those numbers. And what if it went down 40 points from last time and the only thing I have really changed was consumption of MV? Am I not to believe that perhaps consuming this fruit concentrate had some effect?

    If it were so easy to eat the required servings of fruit/veggies each day to combat these issues, then why the heck are we buying $12 Billion of Lipitor and all the other crap they prescribe to us? It is not that easy. You have to eat a lot of fruit/veggies each day. Stuff spoils quickly, is picked before it is ripe so it doesn't rot in the stores. And, I bet if you added it up, it would cost more than $4 per day. Some people can do it, but the majority don't. Look around the problem is rampant.

  173. Lazy Man says:

    You presented the personal testimony as if it was worth something. Like you say, take it for what it's worth. I think the consumer should take it as worth nothing, until we can eliminate the possible bias of distributors, placebo effect, and prove that it's actually healthier than cheaper alternatives (vitamins, eating organic fruit, etc.). If we can do that and it still helps migraines, menstration issues, cholesterol, autism, and the other things brought up in this conversation, then we have something that is truly worth the money.

    "If it were so easy to eat the required servings of fruit/veggies each day to combat these issues, then why the heck are we buying $12 Billion of Lipitor and all the other crap they prescribe to us?"

    It is that easy. People just choose not to do it. They'd rather have their Big Macs and fries.

    It upsets me that people aren't taking more control of their lives, but they don't. MonaVie may make people take better control of their health, but they can just as easily get some organic fruit and blend it up. Make batch and you are all set. Probably preservative free too, not sure if MonaVie is if it lasts as long as it seems.

  174. Emily C says:

    I missed commenting on this the first time-I only visit every month or so.

    I have a unique perspective-my husband worked for a company that marketed its services specifically to those persons in direct sales.

    I attended some conferences with him and met the biggest of the bigwigs-the ones making astronomical amounts of money. They're not happy people, or people with the kind of ethics or lifestyles I would want to live. Some of them were amiable, but many had sacrificed much joy for the sake of someday living a rich lifestyle.

    Sure, people in every industry can be that way, but too many of them get caught up in this "dream" and completely ignore reality.

    None of these products sell themselves, because nothing is that good. People who get sucked into these have a hard go of it.

  175. DJ Mona Vie says:

    Are we still talking about Mona Vie or MLM's? What is wrong with makin money? No one is forced to drink Mona Vie, you either taste it or you don't. It is not for everyone by any means. I assume that the market you shop doesn't carry labels. The one I shop has many different brands to choose from. I don't feel suckered. I feel blessed.

  176. Lazy Man says:

    I'm not sure what that market and labels comment was directed towards or why it's relevant to the conversation. I do prefer to buy the generic versions of almost everything, it saves lots of money.

  177. Danielle says:

    LazyMan

    Well here's the problem. Not everyone reading this blog was coming here for financial advice. I Googled MonaVie and found your blog. I wasn't looking for someone to look out for my financial future, I was looking for different perspectives on MonaVie. I know the cost of the product and it's my decision how I choose to spend my money. So your saying that you aren't being negative, just looking out for people's finances is a smoke screen you're hiding behind. You know that you are attacking the product and any poor soul who chooses to be associated with it. To act otherwise is not prudent. And I know that you didn't use any of those words, but we can read your tone.

    Some people might choose to fork over a few hundred dollars to try the product for themselves for a few months and see if it's worth it to them. Scientific research takes time to develop and I'd rather spend the money now to see if I can feel better and be healthier than wait year for scientific evidence. You are underestimating the public. How many people believe in a God with no proof? Not trying to turn this into a religious discussion at all, I'm just saying, not everyone needs a paper in a medical journal before they will believe in something. Some of us just want to try it for ourselves, I don't really care what it says in a journal, if it works for me, that's all that matters, placebo effect or not.

    And how do I know that the fruit in the store that claims to be organic is really organic? What if there are (gasp) dishonest store owners or corporations or farmers? I mean, how do we really know if anyone is telling the truth? I believe in doing due diligence, but at some point people just have to do what's right for them. Maybe I could save money by buying the fruit myself and blending it up myself and then finding and paying for the liquid glucosamine and esterified fatty acids, but the fact of the matter is, it ain't gonna happen. I have 3 young children, and a night job and am unfortunately paying for years of neglect to myself and I just need to feel better and be healthier now. I don't have the luxury of waiting another 10 years for the scientific evidence. To me, most of what I am paying for is convenience. I don't know where else to go to get camu camu and bilberry and lychee fruit and wolfberry and all the other fruits, nor do I have the time to chase them down. You commented earlier about Starbucks being more expensive because of the convenience of the restaurant and their overhead. Shouldn't you go after all those people and tell them just to make their coffee at home? Why can we not compare MonaVie and Starbucks in terms of their prices? I could make that coffee at home but I would have to buy all the ingredients, some fancy coffee maker and go to barista school. No thanks, I'll spend the $5 a day for the convenience. May seem like a waste of money to you but to millions of Americans it's a waste they are willing to make and I don't see any blogs on your site arguing against Starbucks vs. coffee at home. And there's not even a chance of Starbucks coffee making my foot pain go away. At least with MonaVie there is a chance.

    I just thinkg that as the comments continued through the thread they were more and more about scientific evidence and less about the value of the product which is what you say this site is about.

    Just my opinion...

  178. Lazy Man says:

    Danielle,
    I can't control how you got here. I thank Google for putting my site in position to send you and I'm happy you are here.

    I'm not hiding behind a smoke screen of looking out for people's finances. Do you think I registered this domain and wrote for 2 years about looking out for people's finance so I could set up a smoke screen for this article?

    "Scientific research takes time to develop and I'd rather spend the money now to see if I can feel better and be healthier than wait year for scientific evidence." Are you going to buy Lattimore's Awesome Pills as well? You'll go broke if you try everything. Or maybe you have more than enough money to try absolutely every product out there. Congratulations, but realize there are few people like you.

    Okay, so maybe the organic fruit at the store isn't organic. Does that make MonaVie's organic, no?

    I do suggest that people make their coffee at home. Coffee can cost way under a dollar that way. When I prepare MonaVie at home, it's not under a dollar. Coffee also doesn't make medical claims that it cured this and that... As such I don't hold it to the same standards as MonaVie to prove it's claims.

  179. Vogel says:

    When you look at a piece of fruit at the store, you at least know that it is in fact a piece of fruit. You can't say the same for Monavie. It's touted as a juice that provides the benefits of acai and lots of antioxidants, but you can't tell by looking at it that there is any acai in it (or at least you can't tell how much acai is in it) and the label says nothing about antioxidants.

    Buying Monavie or any other juice should not be an issue of faith; just an issue of value. The manufacturer claims that it's not intended to treat cure or prevent any diseases - the only tangible claim they officially make about it is that it is in fact "juice". The company doesn't make official claims about ingredients or antioxidant amounts or health effects; if they did, no one should have faith in the claim unless they can verify it somehow. The nutrient and antioxidant profile should be on the label or published somewhere, and the potential for health effects is a moot point because (a) it is clearly not intended for that purpose and (b) it is illegal to sell the product on that basis.

    We shouldn't believe any claims that the distributors make if the company isn't willing to officially back them up. I certainly wouldn't trust any distributor who told me I should have faith that Monavie contains something if it isn't printed on the label or in a reputable medical journal, and I wouldn't have faith in any claims they make about effects on health, since such claims are illegal and the company says that the product isn't intended for such purposes.

  180. Danielle says:

    Lazy Man and Vogel,

    First of all yes, I think you set this site up 2 years ago just waiting for this topic to come up. Now you are insulting your readers. I'm simply saying that it is quite convenient to fall back on when need be and that it is irresponsiblie to make certain comments about your personal dislike for the product or it's business model and pawn them off as financial advice.

    And I never said that MonaVie's fruit is organic so I don't know why you are arguing that with me. MonaVie makes it very clear on their website that they don't claim to treat, cure or prevent any diseases, they are categorized as a whole food and as such they do list their ingredients and nutritional information on the bottle just like any other whole food product. You and I know that MonaVie cannot control what comes out of the mouths of over a million distributors. If MonaVie finds those people, they shut them down.

    Tropicana says they use 100% pure Florida oranges. How do I know the oranges are really from Florida? The steaks I buy at the grocery store say they are 100% Angus beef. How do I know that they really are? Sargento cheese say they use the finest ingredients, do they really? Vitamin water says it has vitamins in it. How do I know it does? You may think it's naiive, but I trust that the products have in them what they say they do. I trust that the government agencies that have been put into place to ensure these things, for the most part, work. I don't have time to question the $300 worth of groceries in my cart every two weeks. I pay more for products that claim to be better than others everyday and most likely so do you. Maybe you buy the more expensive because you like the taste better and not because they claim to actually have better ingrediejnts, but the fact of the matter is you choose to buy it for whatever reason and this is no different. Have you ever spent a lot of money on a bottle of wine? If so, why did you spend more? Because it was touted as tasting better and having superior ingredients, but do you know for a fact that it does? No. Let's just agree that I no more know what is in MonaVie than you know what's not in it.

    And I noticed that neither of you commented on the convenience factor I mentioned. Do we as Americans not pay incredible amounts of money for convenience? I suppose you are going to chastise me for using Huggies instead of cloth diapers too. Or for buing microwave popcorn instead of doing it the old fashioned way. Let's face it, we are a society that is obsessed with convenience no matter the cost. That would be why there are more that 1.2 million MonaVie distributors, 90% of whom are considered wholesale customers by the company. They aren't making any money off of anybody else, they are just ordering the product and drinking it. Don't they have that right?

    By the way, either of you know where I can buy the aronia berry, Acerola cherry, camu camu, lychee fruit and the acai berry?

  181. Paul says:

    Slightly unrelated question: Why is organic fruit more nutritious than non organic fruit?

  182. Rich Credit Debt Loan says:

    Seriously, the price alone must mean it is a scam... There are other Acai juices that are much cheaper...
    Need I remind everyone The Difference $10 a Day Makes: http://www.mytwodollars.com/2008/06/30/the-difference-10-a-day-makes/

  183. Lazy Man says:

    Danielle, you were the one that said my wanting to help people financial is a smoke screen. It's not "falling back" it's the central reason this website exists.

    When you say that we have no proof that a store's fruit is organic, it's fair to make that comparison with the current topic MonaVie. Otherwise, what is the point in bringing up whether a store's fruit is organic?

    MonaVie should educate distributors about the medical claims they are making. I'm not a lawyer, but my layman's understanding sides with Vogel... it's quite possibly a legal landmine. As we found from Napster, a company can be held responsible for the actions of it's users. In this case MonaVie distributors are not just users, but on it's payroll.

    "Let's just agree that I no more know what is in MonaVie than you know what's not in it." That's fair. MonaVie prices itself in the range beyond being compared with most things in my supermarket. The food I buy is not a discretionary expense, MonaVie is.

    As a few said above, if MonaVie is $10 a bottle, the burden of proof lessens. When something costs as much as vitamin, I put things to less scrutiny. When it can cost as much as a car, I have to put significant scrutiny. As a consumer advocate, I have to say, "This is a lot of money. People could be influenced by unsubstantiated medical claims of distributors. This is something I need to write about." If you read the original article, I leave plenty of reason why MonaVie might be everything it claims to be (See Redstone and Papelbon paragraph).

    I thought addressed the convenience when I mentioned how I believe in making coffee at home is cheaper and more convenient than Starbucks. In case of MonaVie, during my wife's two week trial, I watched her precisely measure each dose. And when she was going to work, she had to plan to premeasure a dose and find a water-tight container to bring it in. It was far less convenient than bringing in fruit.

    How much more convenient is MonaVie than blending together $7 worth of berries at the beginning of the week and then not having to worry about measuring three times a day?

    Why would you need to buy the exotic berries? Is it because they cure some kind of medical condition or are they any more healthy than other easy to find berries? Do you just like the taste? If you want to pay $50 for that taste and it fits in your budget then I say "great!" Personally, I'd like the experience of driving a Ferrari, but I understand I shouldn't put all my money into one.

    P.S. When it comes to wine, I like Two Buck Chuck. I even wrote some other ways to save money on wine.

  184. Danielle says:

    You are assuming that the piece of fruit that your wife could bring to work is as nutritious as the blend of fruits found in MonaVie. Pardon the expression, but you are not comparing apples to apples. The fact is that most of the fruit we get in this country is grown in soil that has been depleted of it's nutrients and pumped full of God only knows what kind of chemicals so we can produce it in mass quantities. Afterall,you agreed that we really have no idea how good anything is that we eat, so people don't know that the fruit we get at the grocery store is mostly fiber and water and actually has little nutrition in it. There is no label on an apple.

    And I think it is funny that to pre-measure your coffee grounds and find a water-tight container for it so you can drink it on your way to work, is considered easier and more convenient than Starucks, but to do it for MonaVie is just too darn hard. Please. The bottle comes to your door. You put it in the fridge. You open it in the morning when you get up and pour it into a 2 oz. shot glass and drink it. Then you do the same thing before you go to bed at night. Wow, that was hard. And a person doesn't have to measure it. They can drink as much as they want. But just like one piece of broccoli a week wouldn't do much for you nutitionally, MonaVie recommends that you drink at least 4 ounces per day to reap the maximum benefits.

    And why do you care if I spend $130 per month on MonaVie or spend it on eating out, or buying expensive clothing, or having my house cleaned or buying plants and flowers for my yard? It's my money.

    I guess the real problem is that I would have never come to this site to look for advice on how to spend my money. I can make that decision myself. I happened upon it trying to research what people thought of MonaVie. I could listen to the few die-hard MonaVie haters or I could let the billion dollars in sales this year alone and the 1.2 million distributors that are drinking it be my research. Afterall, that's a much larger sample size than any scientific study that I might wait 10 years for.

    Cheers!

  185. Lazy Man says:

    "I guess the real problem is that I would have never come to this site to look for advice on how to spend my money. I can make that decision myself." Good, you don't need this site. Thousands of other people have come to this site and do recommend it to others because I often have ideas on how people can save money with little or no compromise of quality. If you are against saving money or already know everything there is to saving money, I tip my hat to you.

    "Let's just agree that I no more know what is in MonaVie than you know what's not in it." Since we agreed to that, we can't assume that MonaVie is better than the fruit. And as you point out, we can't assume the fruit is better than the MonaVie... then shouldn't we let our wallet decide?

    I would still argue that it's pretty much a universal truth that the less processing a food has undergone the better. Potato, not so bad... french fries/potato chips, much worse.

    Please stick to one comparison or the other. If you want to debate coffee, let's compare coffee. If you want to compare nutritious juice, then let's compare those.

    For coffee: you think it's easier to drive a mile, find a parking spot, wait in line, order, then wait for your coffee vs. measuring a spoonful at home and setting a timer? In what world is that?

    For Monavie: measure three times a day. For my berry drink, take berries, put in blender, hit blend, pour into bottle and then take like MonaVie for the rest of the week, but no need to measure. If you drink a little extra, you can make a few more batches for the same price. Is it really worth $100+ a month to not use a blender for 5 minutes? Maybe if you are Redstone or Pappelbon and you make millions.

    People spend their money how they want to. That's the beauty of money, spending it. I don't care if someone buys MonaVie as long as they are upfront with what they are getting. With all the medical testimonies going on and what they told my wife, that's something I care about. Our country and it's citizens are in large amounts of debt.

    Danielle, I don't know your situation, nor do I pretend to, but you did mention that you have a night job and three children. I live in a world where it would make sense to give up some conveniences such as eatting out often, buying expensive clothes, and spending $400+ a month on MonaVie for the whole family (see Candace's first comment) when we've agreed we don't know it's better than old fashioned fruit.

    Again, everyone makes their own choices. I only try to say what I'd do and why I'd do it. Everyone needs to take the information in and decide for themselves.

    For me, I'd give up a lot of those conveniences to be able to quit the night job, freeing up time to exercise, and spend time with my three children.

  186. lattimore says:

    Sorry for my absence. the lab has been super busy!!!! one of our side offices developed a process for time travel that we're using to set up websites in the past. This way we'll have a marketing edge on everyone.

    but back to business

    my super pills have 83 new studies published about their efficacy. My buddy barry wrote most of them. He is probably the smartest guy i know. He made the sweetest birdhouse you have ever seen out of some beer cans and milk jug. Barry's research definitively shows that my super pills infuse the body with such unheard of levels of awesome that you no longer need to search out any supplemental awesome anywhere.

    and for all you nay sayers out there, there is no way i would put all this time and effort into spreading the good word about my pills for personal gain. I just want everyone to be as awesome as me. The super cash flow that you will create after becoming a consumer/dealer is just a gift from me to you.

  187. Lazy Man says:

    Lattimore, how can you be busy with a time travel on your side? You should just have come back a few minutes after you left. ;-)

  188. lattimore says:

    Barry just got replaced as the smartest person i know

  189. lattimore says:

    sorry barry just informed me that if we didnt come back later it would have alerted the government. They're all out to ruin me since i already have patented the awesome process. LONG LIVE BARRY!!

  190. Lazy Man says:

    I think your time travel inventor is smarting. I've been working on it myself so I can go back and stop Archie Manning from procreating.

  191. lattimore says:

    OUCH!!! what about those awesome commercials. especially that timex ad that i cant make fun of any more because that asshat won a super bowl.

    If you're able to pull off your time travel i'll give you 15% off of a ground floor dealership in super pills

  192. lattimore says:

    apoligies to timex it was citizen who had the ad.

  193. DJ Mona Vie says:

    Danielle, I couldn't of said it better myself. Thanks for your input. I think I will spend the next few hours shopping for fresh fruit, (I should be growing it to be sure it's Oraganic) cutting it up, putting it in the blender, and then disbursing it in smaller containers...Oh yea, let's be sure to waste the skins and seeds full of nutrition. Oh wait...I can't get the fruit...it's from the Amazon!

  194. Lazy Man says:

    Wait, Danielle and I agreed that we don't know if Amazon fruit is better than any other fruit.

    DJ MonaVie, it takes you a couple of hours to shop for fruit? When I'm at the store, I just grab it and put it in my cart. It's a total of 10 seconds max. It's a place that I'm at anyway. I have to think this more convenient that meeting up with a MonaVie distributor.

    I don't see why one would cut up berries before blending. Insert berries, hit blend, drink. Maybe I'm missing some steps there. Oh, you could just open mouth, insert berries and be done.

  195. Danielle says:

    Excuse me, but in fact you and I did NOT agree that we don't know whether fruit from the Amazon is better than other fruit. We agreed that we don't really know what ingredients are really in the foods we buy. Actually, in my last post I said that I do believe that the fruit we get in this country is nutritionally inferior because we have depleted the soil that they are grown in of it's nutrients. If you understand what a phytonutrient is then you would understand why food grown in the Amazon is nutritionally superior.

    Furthermore, it's nice of you to show your thousands of readers that you don't approve of working moms either. For your information, I work out (at a $10 per month gym that I'm sure you would approve of) almost everyday and work while my children are sleeping so that I do get to spend time with them. But that is not any of your concern, nor what this is about. Clearly you are a cheap, chauvinist in a consumer advocates' clothing.

  196. lattimore says:

    forget the berries. it's all about Barry. He's the friggin man and he loves lattimore's Super Pills.

  197. Lazy Man says:

    Okay, so we agree that we don't really know what ingredients are in the food that we buy. Thus we don't know know what is in MonaVie either. Hence we are paying for the potential of Amazon fruit being in MonaVie. Danielle, you have to agree with that.

    When did I say that I didn't approve of working moms? When we decide to have children, my wife fully intends to continue her job. Where is the chauvinism? I made no comment gender-related comment.

    There's a big difference between frugal and cheap. I talked about it here.. Readers can judge for themselves.

  198. Danielle says:

    No wonder your wife didn't buy those bottles of juice that night. She was afraid of what you would do to her if she did.

    "For me, I'd give up a lot of those conveniences to be able to quit the night job, freeing up time to exercise, and spend time with my three children". You are insinuating that I am bad mother because I choose to spend money on a nutritious juice instead of quitting my job and being with my children. And I assure you the two are not interchangable. I make more than $130 a month at my job. And I never said anything about giving it to my children. They have plenty of energy and they have not been "damaged" by years of unhealthy eating and the natural aging process.

    "There's a big difference between frugal and cheap". That's what all cheap people say.

  199. Danielle says:

    Of course your wife plans to work after you two have children. You are too cheap to have her stay home and, God forbid, give up something so she can raise your child. Good plan.

  200. lattimore says:

    while i was time traveling i missed a few post here.

    first. Bill Brasky is a 2 ton mountain man who can palm a medicine ball. He did 3 tours in 'Nam...... I was in Corpus Christi on business a month ago. I had this eight foot tall Asian waiter, which made me curious. I asked him his name. Sure enough it's Ho Tran Brasky.

    He is easily a substitute for the scientific process.

    now for danielle.

    clearly you are an antipillite. You haven't once mentioned how awesome my super pills are. I sell these pills so that the world will be better. The fact that i'm a single man who raises 3 kids and 3 llamas should easily prove that my arguements are much more valid than yours (i've got llamas for goodness sake). My pills are far superior to the mohave juice on every level. I have just as many peer reviewed articles proving the efficacy of my pills as you do for the juice. 2nd, if this is just yum yum tasty fruit you should try the new fruit punch flavor of my super pills. they are delicious and only $15 a piece if you are a distributor. This is higher than most candy, but most candy doesnt have Bill Brasky and my buddy Barry's backing (plus all that awesome we pack in there).

    Thats why working stiffs like us have to use my super pills. They are just as effective as "mona from whos the boss" juice and they cost less. I don't know about you but i've got llamas to feed and i can't waste my money on snakeoil or fruit juice that costs 40 a fith.

  201. Lazy Man says:

    Danielle, either way you complain. If my wife stays home to take care of the children, I'm a chauvinist and "making her" do so. If I'm the one to be the house-husband and give up my career, I'm "making her work." It's good that you have an argument that you can win either way, because we still haven't figured out the extra value for the money of MonaVie. We've just established that neither of us know if it's better or worse than regular fruit.

    You can call me a chauvist, but regular readers know it's untrue. You can look at No Limits Ladies and see that they prominently mention me. You might want to read this post of mine and woman power theme behind it.

  202. Danielle says:

    Sorry for the delay in my response. I found something far more entertaining on the internet, it's called the evolution of dance on youtube, very entertaining.

    Anyway, you enjoy putting words in my mouth which is funny because all anyone has to do is scroll back up to see what I really said, and why I said you were a chauvinist.

    And as fun as this has been, neither of us is going to change the other's mind and my kids are now home from their playdates and up from their naps so I'm going to spend some of that precious time with them that I miss out on because I spend too much money on juice and therefore have to work.

    But I'll be thinking of you when I down my $2 shot of MonaVie tonight before bed!

    Cheers!

  203. Lazy Man says:

    If you like the Evolution of Dance, the guy makes a cameo in this Weezer video. It's fun stuff.

    Well you didn't explain why you said I was a chauvinist. There were no chauvinist comments, so I don't see why you went down that road.

    Danielle, it's clear that you didn't come here to explore the topic. Your mind was already made up or else you wouldn't call people here asking for proof that MonaVie works, "MonaVie haters." I have said in multiple places that I don't know, but I know that I want evidence for the cost.

    I'm going to go now too, it's time to have some of Lattimore's awesome pills - not that I need them of course.

  204. lattimore says:

    danielle, please cut and past chauvinist part of lazy mans comments. i havent been able to find it. time travel has me a little loopy. You can also check out the scientific process and double blind studies while on the internet, they are very enlightening. If you don't have time to check those just find me something that validates paying $40 for flipping fruit juice. the wise spending of money is what this forum is for. please tell me why this juice (not cancer, flu, eczema, etc, cure) is worth so many times more than good old v8.

    i'm just gonna stick with super pills if you don't have a good reason for "mony mony by tomy james and shondells" juice.

  205. lattimore says:

    cure for cancer, flu, eczema, etc. is what i meant. mea culpa

  206. Vogel says:

    Danielle said: "You and I know that MonaVie cannot control what comes out of the mouths of over a million distributors. If MonaVie finds those people, they shut them down.

    Reply: If they can't control what their distributors say, then their system of marketing is out of control and should not exist. And what happens if they don't "find those people"? They will continue to run amok deceiving others and violating the law – that is the company's responsibility, and if they can't control it, this will be their ultimate downfall. And why on earth would they need a million distributors? There is no single product on the planet that needs a million people to distribute it effectively. Talk about overkill.

    Danielle said: Tropicana says they use 100% pure Florida oranges. How do I know the oranges are really from Florida?

    Reply: Yes, the label on this particular brand of supermarket OJ says it's 100% juice. Does Monavie say that on the label? No. The OJ label says that the oranges used in it are from Florida. Does Monavie's label show the country of origin of any of their ingredients? No. It's one thing to distrust explicit claims; it's a lot more suspect when a product makes no claims at all. If Monavie is simply "juice" and nothing more, it doesn't warrant $40 a bottle.

    Danielle said: "people don't know that the fruit we get at the grocery store is mostly fiber and water and actually has little nutrition in it."

    Reply: That's completely ridiculous. What kind of fruit do you think they studied in all that published research showing the health benefits of fruit? There was nothing special about the fruit in those studies – it's the same fruit as we buy in our supermarkets, and it has been scientifically validated to provide health benefits. Monavie hasn't.

  207. lattimore says:

    dont take shame in taking the super pills. antipillites are always trying to attach a stigma to them. You are entitled to every last iota of awesome they are full of. People like danielle will never believe. They will probably change their minds after a bear attack or two.

  208. Damian says:

    Vogel, or whoever has the answer to answer,
    You just said "What kind of fruit do you think they studied in all that published research showing the health benefits of fruit? There was nothing special about the fruit in those studies – it's the same fruit as we buy in our supermarkets, and it has been scientifically validated to provide health benefits.

    If Monavie uses the same "fruit"...then you just gave Monavie the scientific validation to provide health benefits. So all you non-believers...you can argue the price, but you can't argue the health benefits.

    Lazy Man said "For me, I'd give up a lot of those conveniences to be able to quit the night job, freeing up time to exercise, and spend time with my three children"

    That was a cheap and unwarranted remark. Your right, you don't know her situation, so you have no right making a remark like that.

    It's like I said the other day...as Americans 9which I am one and proud to be), we can't just sit and have a debate in a civilized manner, and then just agree to dis-agree. Instead, we need to throw out cheap shots and put up with the sarcasm of stupid super pills. There is no need for sarcasm, and there is no need for cheap shotting a working mother.

  209. Lazy Man says:

    Damian,

    MonaVie would have to prove that there's no additives and that their processing doesn't strip the benefits of fruits. As Danielle and I agreed yesterday, we don't know what's in MonaVie any more than we know what's in any other food. I have more confidence that are no additives to the fruit, since it's unprocessed.

    And if MonaVie did all that, they'd just be proving to be an expensive form of fruit. Where's the value in that?

    Damian, what was cheap and unwarranted about that remark? I was simply giving my philosophy about how I live my life (hence why I put it in my perspective). I've said in numerous places that money is freedom to me. If anyone reads any more than that into it, then they are making wrong assumptions and taking things out of context.

    Lattimore's pills is an intelligent debate. If you think they are "stupid super pills", then you must conclude that MonaVie is "stupid juice" or else show us why they are different when it comes to all the medical claims being made on this thread.

    By the way, I have about 5 or 6 MonaVie distributors spreading medical claim testimonials here and no other MonaVie distributor has stood up and called them out for doing anything wrong. That speaks to what Vogel was saying about MonaVie not taking control of the situation.

    It's only the "MonaVie haters" (in Danielle's words) willing to stand up for the law.

  210. Vogel says:

    Except Monavie is not "fruit". Monavie is a juice with unknown quantities of fruit extracts...a huge difference.

    As for Lattimore, he's probably the funniest most canny contriibutor on this forum. I would much rather read about his awesome pills metaphor then the constant barrage of nonsense that has come from the MV folks.

  211. lattimore says:

    i just wanted to get this out before you read it somewhere else.

    There is another company out there selling stupendous tablets. while these may be identical to my $15 super pills they only cost $5.

    DONT FALL FOR IT.

    My super pills are far superior. Otherwise i wouldnt charge you $15 a piece for them (dealer price). i use the patented awesome process. You have to agree that makes my pills a bargain at $15.

    On a side note i've had about all i can stand from you antipillites. I raise 3 kids, 3 llamas, i watch nascar and love good ol u.s. of a. None of these things have jack to do with my super pills. But obviously they make my stance on super pills infallable.

    so in parting dont take stupendous tablets unless you want eaten by a bear.

  212. Damian says:

    Wait wait wait....Lattimore's pills is an intelligent debate? No, it's sarcasm at it's best. At least give me the website then where I can go check out these super pills. You can't debate with a completely non-existence item.
    What was cheap about the remark is you used her situation to make whatever point you are making. Unless of course...you have three kids yourself. And as a parent, I am sure that is why she got so upset about it (i am only assuming)....

    "MonaVie would have to prove that there's no additives and that their processing doesn't strip the benefits of fruits. As Danielle and I agreed yesterday, we don't know what's in MonaVie any more than we know what's in any other food. I have more confidence that are no additives to the fruit, since it's unprocessed"

    To some extent...I agree with you. However, as I mentioned before, I saw how my wife 's RA pain went away, and she stopped taking medication...whether it's the juice, or a placebo effect (which I doubt), or anything else, for me...it is worth the $120 a month for her. (By the way, nobody took me up on my offer to meet with her doctor for verification...what a shame).

    As for the medical testimonials...I think this is where the biggest problems occur. First and foremost, I DO NOT agree with false testimony. Nor do I agree with someone selling Monavie who is not drinking it themselves. But where do you, I, Danielle, Vogel, Lattisuperpill, or anyone else have the right to tell somebody, "No, the juice is not doing anything for you medically". We don't have that right because we don't know. Should Monavie take control?? YES....I firmly believe they should call these people out and do some indepth verifying. Should Monavie claim these themselves? no, and they haven't. But I believe eventually they will. Nor do we have the right to tell someone they are wasting money on something they feel is benfiting them and they believe in. What if you are a non-believer in GOD, and someone else is a believer and they contribute 10% of their pay to tithing...or you going to tell them they are wasting money? Do you call them out when they say they have been healed from the higher power, or GOD has provided for them? A believer is a believer....no matter what the product, or situation is.
    You want to hate the company...hate the company. You want to hate the price...hate the price. You want to hate the distributors trying to shove it down your throat...hate them, as I do too. But NOBODY has the right the tell somebody else they are wasting money on a product they believe is doing them good. People say it has lowered their cholesteral...but wait...there is a cheaper product in the form of a pill...was once called Vioxx...although you may suffer a heart attack from it...it was approved by the FDA so it must be good. Approvals mean nothing...

    Wine...it has been noted drinking a glass of red wine a day is good for you. I for one, am not a fan of 2-buck chuck. The average wine bottle cost roughly, what, about $15. You get roughly 3 1/2-4 glasses out of a bottle. So thats $30 a week. (roughly). Pretty comparable to the Monavie price...and Monavie has more than just grapes and no alchohol.

  213. lattimore says:

    Why do all these wild exotic juices with even wilder prices come from Utah? Are super fancy bottles the only way to properly contain these mega super juices? Do they have some sort of device there that transports fruit from places you likely will never go to?If they do i'm gonna try to get one and put Barry to reverse engineering one of these and make a fortune.

  214. lattimore says:

    its easier to prove the existense of fruit than it is to prove the existence of God.

    Unless you're on my Super Pills, Barry took a whole bottle one day and said he was kicking with God for like 4 hours.

  215. lattimore says:

    sorry i meant kicking "it" with god. Barry would never kick god.

  216. lattimore says:

    if your mother spends her life savings on my super pills and she feels better is that any worse than paying $40 for v8 in a real nice bottle

  217. Damian says:

    Why does someone need to prove the existence of GOD...why can't they just believe in him and that be that. So goes for Monavie...why does anyone have to prove anything to anybody else?
    Vogel:
    I haven't seen one post on here where someone is trying to force you to buy their product, or even even throw their website in your face and tell you to go buy...in fact...the only person here constantly trying to get anyone to buy anything is latisuperpilloverdose....

  218. lattimore says:

    why do you need a website to believe in super pills. I'm gonna have to charge you an extra $30 non believer tax if you order any of my pills

  219. Lazy Man says:

    Damian,
    I used her situation so that she could identify with my point of view and my way of thinking. If I use my own situation it's more abstracted and it's less likely the person will identify with it.

    Lattimore makes the point about his pills. Why not just believe in them? Why not just believe in hundreds or thousands of supplements that I could get at GNC? I think there are at least 15 different Hoodia pills. Should I believe each one works and spend $500 a month on them. Multiply that by 10 different types of supplements (of course there are hundreds) and you have a $5000 monthly bill just because you believe it be to true.

    If someone wants to make a donation to MonaVie based on theological principals, I can't argue with that logic. That's because there's no real logic behind it, it's just belief. However, like I mention above, if you believe in MonaVie, you should make the same donation to Hoodia supplements and all the like. No reason to discriminate right? I hope you have $5000 in disposable income a month for that.

    I don't want to hear the doctor hear that her condition was fixed in this one case (well, I do... but let me continue)... I want to hear that it was indisputable that it was the MonaVie that did it... there was a control to prevent any other factors from influencing things... And then I want him to repeat it on a number of patients with the same results.

    What I don't want to hear is that it fixed cholesterol in one person, autism symptoms in another, joint pain in a third, and severe menstral bleeding in a fourth. The only scientific basis all these have common that I can see is that the placebo effect could work on all of them.

    Damian, there are lots of people that try to put their websites in these forums. I delete them. If people read this thread and want to try MonaVie, they can easily find a place to buy it. I don't want to promote any one person's MonaVie distribution more than the others.

  220. Damian says:

    Lazman says:
    I don't want to hear the doctor hear that her condition was fixed in this one case (well, I do... but let me continue)... I want to hear that it was indisputable that it was the MonaVie that did it... there was a control to prevent any other factors from influencing things... And then I want him to repeat it on a number of patients with the same results.

    What I don't want to hear is that it fixed cholesterol in one person, autism symptoms in another, joint pain in a third, and severe menstral bleeding in a fourth. The only scientific basis all these have common that I can see is that the placebo effect could work on all of them."

    I think for the fist time since reading this blog I can say that I 100% agree with your statement. And I also agree with you not providing websites...I don't think forums like this should be a way to sell your stuff.

  221. lattimore says:

    then is the only reasoning for $40 juice based on the placebo effect?

  222. Damian says:

    I can't say if that is the only reason. BUT...for debate sake, I guess, let's say most of the claims are from a placebo effect. Does that make a difference? We all know that the majority of the time if you do something and start with a negative attitude it won't work...same is true with a positive attitude...it will work. Most of the time. Is it so bad that the placebo effect is making people feel better? And forget the price...the price should not even be an issue. People can afford it with no problem...other's can't. Those who can't...don't drink it.

  223. lattimore says:

    price isnt an issue. where are we typing again? if price isnt an issue i've got a slightly used jeep that you cannot contract herpes in. it costs 125,000. Just keep in mind that it only works if you believe real hard. If it doesnt work its your fault. I've never got the herpe in it and god knows i've tried

  224. Damian says:

    That's nice oyu have a used jeep...however, I am not in need of a jeep these days nor will I pay that much for a used jeep, or any car for that matter.

    You just clarified my point...thanks. You have something to sell...I don't need it nor can afford it. No biggie. hope you find that person who needs it. Thats the same concept..however the difference...I didn't establish the price of Monavie. You want to pick a bone do it with the company...not the distributors. They don't set the prices. The only legitimate complaint you could possibly have is gripping about distributors pushing it down your throat. Thats it. It is simple english...You don't like it...don't drink it. Too much money....don't buy it. Didn't do anything for you...don't drink anymore.

  225. lattimore says:

    werent we debating if this juice is worth $40. this is a personal finance site and all. If you are selling this juice at said price aren't you kind of endorsing or saying its worth it.

  226. Damian says:

    Absolutely I endorse it. I think anybody that sells a product for whatever value better darn well back it up and say it's worth it. yes this is personal finance. So to your $40 worthiness...related to personal finance....I would say don't buy retail...buy in bulk and end up paying $20 a bottle. So I just basically got you two-4-one. Not a bad savings.
    In all seriousness....what if in the next month or so, or whatever...Monavie all of a sudden is printed in various medical and scientific journal magazines and newspapers as being a "healer, or whatever you want to call it".....would price then not be an issue?

  227. Candace says:

    There's just too much interestingness here to be able to comment on it all.

    Lattimore, you are crackin' me UP!

    LazyMan, Vogel, as always, well thought out and important points you both are making.

    Damien, at least you are not getting overly defensive in your comments. I can appreciate your point of view for the most part, with the exception of the "price should not be an issue" comment. Price is very much an issue for all of us.

    I can't even comment to DJ MonaVie or Danielle, because I do not "get" their logic whatsoever. Danielle...to say something like "MonaVie is wonderful, I will always drink it, I am trying to repair years of damage done to myself", and then to say "my children do not drink it"....I don't think I can communicate with you at all. If you truly believed the product was so amazing, and helps repair all the years of damage...why would you with hold that from your children???!!! I would think it would be the other way around, let me give to my children first, and myself last.This thought process makes me realize that we will never be able to communicate sanely with one another.

    It is always telling when one cannot explain themselves and "defend" or promote their product without getting angry, overheated, short tempered, insulting or insulted. The very fact that the "defenders" of this juice, for the most part, are getting angry and rude, calling names, making off the wall insinuations (chauvanism?????!!!), tells me that they don't have the facts to communicate calmly about their product. People often get mad when they can't legitimately defend their stance, when they don't have the facts or evidence on their side.
    It is the difference between knowing something and thinking something. When one "knows" it to be true, there is no reason for name calling or rudeness, or anger. That typically occurs when one has no facts to stand behind.

    Another thing that's interesting to me: all this talk about MonaVie not making medical claims and telling their distributors not to, either...appears to be bogus.

    Google "MonaVie &_______" (migraines, PMS, MS, Autism, etc, you fill in the blank). Oddly enough you will find many links to click on. Most of them will have "mymonavie"or "mymonaviemiracle" in the URL. this is a website *hosted by MonaVie itself*
    This is a direct contradiction from MonaVie who says that they do not allow their distributors to make medical claims. Each and every one of those distributor sites that are hosted by MonaVie make numerous health benefit and medical claims. MonaVie, like most other MLMs says one thing, does another, and then hides behind the cloak of "we didn't say it our distributor did, shame on him/her". If MonaVie were serious about their stance, they would monitor content on those websites that are hosted by them. They would not allow false or misleading claims, or even medical claims. This does not give me faith in MonaVie the company at all.

    Thoughts?

  228. Damian says:

    Candace:
    First off...love the name. My wife also is Candise (spelling difference)....
    Now...We do drink Monavie and I do share it. But I have to say...your post was the most impressive, logically point, and well educated blog I have read on here in the last couple weeks. I think we should all be open-minded to everyone else's opinions and have a adult minded debate. Just because I believe something to be true...doesn't mean it is. That's why I am here learning from others.
    And whether Danielle is a distributor or not...your comment about putting my kids first and me last...Couldn't have agreed more.

  229. Damian says:

    One more thing..."MyMonavie" is the only approved Monavie website, which has to be set up through them. Anything you put in such as :PMS, Autism, etc..etc...is more than likely because of Google Ads...a pay service to attract people to your site using certain key words. That is not the company setting that up, but individual distributors. Although the comapny at this time, at least to my knowledge, has not enforced their policy.

  230. Vogel says:

    Just an FYI...found an interesting new article on Monavie written last week by a forensic accountant/fraud investigator:

    http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/2008/06/30/monavie-scam-or-not

    Comments?

  231. Lazy Man says:

    I think it's interesting. I could see how one could come to that conclusion after reading the 230+ comments here.

  232. Allison says:

    I have been drinking MonaVie for 3 days now. I started with an open mind and tried to have neutral feelings about it (as I didn't want to be positive it would work, then have the placebo effect kick in). So far I have not felt any positive effects, in fact I am actually more tired in the morning, and very tired in the afternoon. I thought this juice was supposed to give me more energy but so far, it hasn't done so.

    I'm going to continue drinking it until the bottle runs out and see how I feel at the end, but all these comments have really helped.

    I was lucky enough to talk my way around not having to sign up and pay the $55AUD registration fee and $150AUD for a case of MonaVie (which I was told I need to do in order to start my 'business'). As someone who is living by themselves and studying part time, I don't have the money to fork out that type of cash on something that I don't know actually works.

    I'm glad LazyMan and Vogul have done their research on MonaVie as I can see that there are obviously flaws in all the claims made in favour of MonaVie.

    Also, Lattimore, hit me up with those pills you speak of, I need a boost of awesomeness!

  233. lattimore says:

    damian. the question that we "non believers" want answered is what makes monavie worth the price it is sold for? We've already cleared the table of all the panacea claims. what makes this juice several times more expensive than other juices?

    since my std repellent jeep analogy didnt work for you we'll try another car analogy.

    i need a car to get my kids to school. i can pay 20k for a nice honda civic that will get the job done fine. or i could pay 120k for a Porshe 911 turbo. The civic seems more reasonable with my budget. i'm gonna buy it. now if my budget allowed i would buy the 911. it has about 3 times the horsepower and 8 times the awesome (having my legal dept. check on where they got their awesome from). There are tangible and definable reasons why the Porshe costs more (and yes i know some of the price is for the name).

    We are on a site talking about finance and responsible spending of money. i would like an answer that shows why, with everyone's wallet getting tighter, that i should spend my money on your juice versus very much cheaper options that do not require me to be a distributer for a company to get a still inflated price for fruit juice.

    Allison

    you obviously have an eye for what is really happening. My super pills will have you elbow deep in awesome in no time. you will be the envy of all your friends. the patented awesome process puts a level of awesome in you that cant really be measured by modern devices. Others will try to sell you identical looking products that make identical claims (except for the occasional rabid distributor) for much less than my super pills. Dont be a chump. Treat yourself to the good life. The benefits of my awesome pills will outweigh all monetary concerns.

    And F those F-ing bears. TAKE SUPER PILLS

  234. lattimore says:

    forgot to answer the question about a report surfacing that confirmed monavie did something more than v8. If it does that will be one of those tangible or definable things i'm looking for in the above post

  235. Jeff Jenkins says:

    I cant believe the ignorance of this blog! I have entered here looking to research the Monavie product as a viable means of income and have been greatly discouraged not of the product, but of the dialogue! People with the name LAZYMAN are ignorant to the facts of how business is done in the distribution arena. I cant think of any really successful business principle that is as effective as a well developed MLM. I own 2 brick and mortar companies and I pay straight commission to all parties involved. WHY? Because as they perform so shall they be paid. A lazy man (or woman) would not last because they would bring nothing profitable to the table, therefore they would receice not financial benefit (or reward).
    I am all for FREE SPEECH, but the ignorance cost you something in the long run!

    As for Monavie? Sure, you have convinced me that the ignorant cant/wont see the benefits but I truely do.
    As Walt Disney was quoted as saying "if I share an idea with 10 of my peers and at least 7 think its a bad idea, I will do it". I like feedback, but dispise the cowardice rantings of an uneducated "Know it all".
    Gotta go. I need to register for my new MONAVIE distributorship.............
    P.S. Use your real name not your title ;)

  236. Lazy Man says:

    Jeff, since you probably came from a search engine, you don't understand this website. I use the word Lazy to mean too things. 1) It's irony, because people say I'm always doing so much and 2) I prefer to use my mind over brawn.

    A "lazy man" can bring a lot of ideas to the table. These ideas are important and are central to the information age we are in.

    If you want to talk about MonaVie as a way of making money, that's an entirely different topic than the one we've covered so far. I simply wrote about the consumer's aspect of buying MonaVie and whether it has value or not. I'm sorry you didn't find what you were looking for.

    I love a thoughtful debate, but this is a little light on debatable facts. When you say, "I cant think of any really successful business principle that is as effective as a well developed MLM", it's clearly your own opinion, not something that's necessarily true. Also, you put the clarification of "well developed" before the MLM. It's like saying, "I can't think of a better paying job than a Fortune 500 CEO." Trouble is that very people will be either. At least if you fall short of the CEO, you might be a VP at a successful company.

    If you fall short in the MLM, you wasted a lot of money and a lot of time. That's going to cost you something in long run as well.

    Lastly, I don't use my name because I show my net worth prominently and other financial information on this site. This helps readers know where I'm at with my finances, which helps them on a number of my other articles (not so much on this one). If I disclose my name, it sets me up as a target for identity theft.

  237. lattimore says:

    wow the rest of the united states needs to hurry up and get on board with utah so they can all get in on the most bestus business model there is. I'd love to know how many people here personally know someone who retired or became wealthy from an mlm. especially monavie. The following site has some interesting thoughts on the subject

    http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/Utah_hotbed.htm

  238. lattimore says:

    jeff jenkins

    please state the clear benefits that miracle juice has over regular fruit juices that causes the extreme price difference.remember i'm ignorant so use small words.

    ps: if you havent heard i also retail in some pretty amazing pills.

  239. Vogel says:

    Just curious Jeff, how closely are you willing to follow Disney's advice? If 7 out of 10 people told you that you shouldn't try to swallow a flaming sword, would you take that as an indication that you should do the opposite and swallow it anyway? I don't understand why so many Monavie distributors think that slogans and platitudes like these should trump commonsense.

    Lattimore: As to the Utah connection. We can thank, Utah senator Orrin Hatch for that – looking out for all his friends in the MLM biz. Guess who his largest campaign contributor is? The Utah-based MLM juice company Xango - and Hatch has even plugged the product. Wow, who to believe Orrin Hatch or Sumner Redstone? Xango or Monavie? How is one supposed to decide among the dizzying array of fraudulent MLM fruit punch/bogus cancer cure options?

  240. Howe says:

    [Editor's Note: This commenter left his MonaVie Distributor website which has been deleted]

    Wow, what an interesting forum you guys have going on here. The more I explore the internet, the more I appreciate it as a true marketplace of ideas. It would be easy to find yourself paralyzed with information over-load-in my own life, I have found that at some point you gotta take a step one way or the other. My tendency toward skepticism causes a sort of inertia that is ultimately life-diminishing, and I am getting to an age where there just ain't a whole lot of life left.

    So I recently took the plunge and signed up with MonaVie. I figured, if it's good enough for Jonathan Papelbon (go Sox!) then it's good enough for me. And I am sort of desperate for a way to make an income from home, since I have to care for my 90-year-old father-in-law and can't go out and get a job. And with 2 kids in college...

    BUT, since I find pushing the stuff and the opportunity on friends and relatives repulsive, I knew there had to be some other way to present it, and somehow there had to be an answer in this newfangled internet thing.

    Very interesting...very new at all this, but I sure am willing to learn. My feeling about it is, maybe it's a scam, probably not; what can it hurt to give it a try? I may lose some on the gamble, but I may also win big, who knows? How would I ever find out if I didn't at least give it a shot?

    Cool blog, by the way.

  241. Candace says:

    Update:

    We just finished the last of the MonaVie in this house yesterday. My kids were the only people here still drinking it, and they stayed on it regularly for the past 8 weeks, just as directed.

    They both came down with colds 3 days ago. I add this only as an FYI. 2 children under the age of 6 drinking MonaVie at the rate of 2 ounces twice a day for 8 weeks, now have summer colds simply from being out in the general public.

    I am not posting this because *I* thought that MonaVie would keep them from getting sick, but because I have been told and have overheard distributors telling other people countless times that "it will keep your kids from getting sick, catching colds, and suffering from allergies."

    That didn't prove true for us.
    Again, for those who won't read all the previous posts, we eat mostly organic, the kids take vitamins, acidophilus, have regular excellent sleeping habits and get great exercise. Eliminating the known factors for lowered immunity.

    And now we are completely done with the MonaVie juice. I will continue to check this thread for further info and updates from others.

    Thank you all for the lively discussion and to LazyMan for a great website and a place to openly discuss the pros and cons to the MonaVie business. You are offering a great value to your readers, thank you!

  242. Kristi Graham says:

    [Editor's Note: This commenter left his MonaVie Distributor website which has been deleted]

    My husband has been taking Mona Vie for about 3 weeks and has more energy and is waking up at 5 a.m. and going running. It has also helped with his joint pain and shoulder pain and with his allergies. We signed up as distributors and are very excited. Contact us if you are interested in hearing more and are in the austin, tx area. This is great!!

  243. mac donaldson says:

    Dear Lazyman:

    Read through your blog after a preacher and his wife came in to the hotel I was working and told me this monavie was a cure all. What a shame, you would think most people would know better. What's worse is the unconsciousiable act of being able to take advantage of people who are desperate for some relief of their aches and pains in order for their pursuit of worshiping the dollar. This is no better than people who call you up and tell you that you've won a contest if only you send them $money first, or the people who claim that a pill will enlarge your penis.
    But on the other side, just as bad are doctors who don't care, drug companies that push their unworthy pills through the FDA (I have known 3 of 3 people (100%) on cholesterol medicine who have suffered the "rare side effect" and are sick because of it) and every politician that is bought off by big business. Not to mention those that think ultimate fighting(or boxing) is civilized, that hunting can be for sport and cock fighting is fun. How most people can look themselves in the mirror is beyond me, but at least there are people like yourself that is willing to say "show me the proof (not money)"

    We live in a society that pays truck drivers more than teaches, what does that tell us? Unfortunately there are too many people who say "well if they are stupid enough to buy it".
    Don't be fooled by monavie

  244. Lazy Man says:

    mac donaldson, I'm happy that you spent some time doing the research before spending your hard earned money.

    I don't think it's quite as bad as the people who call you up and say you've won some money, when you have to send them money first. You are likely getting some nutritional value with MonaVie. I'd just throw the cure all claims away and evaluate the value from there.

  245. Ryan says:

    I can't believe how many of you think it's too expensive to spend money on your health and well-being. One person said it could cost as much as a car payment. So what? Would you rather have a car or your health? Your priorities are all way out of line. Not only that but it's people like most of you out there who won't invest in maintaining health but will pay for reactive treatment. This is why health insurance is so expensive. Don't be upset because people are trying to take care of themselves.

    And to those of you who call multi-level marketing a scam or bad idea, ask yourself these questions. Where do you work? Does your boss make more money than you? A corporation is just as much a pyramid scheme as a legitimate MLM. Not only that, but in my experience of working for a corporation and in a MLM, the people involved in MLMs are way better to be around. They are driven, go getters, with a good attitude about life. The majority of the people I know working for a standard company or organization are almost depressing.

    Why be upset with a company that offers an opportunity that is very inexpensive. Have you looked at franchise fees lately? For $40 to start and $200 a month to have the opportunity to make money on my own time while consuming a product that could potentially extend my life. I see casino parking lots packed at 8 in the morning with people betting their childrens dinner money on something that they have NO chance of coming out on top with.

    Not only that, but having team meetings and thinking of new ideas to expand the business is fun. No bosses, no time clocks, none of that. Just friends trying to be healthy and trying to live a fulfilling life.

    Remember the next time you start criticizing that the criticism usually stems from an internal want/desire for exactly what you are criticizing.

    Negativity gets us nowhere. Have any of you heard the saying "No matter if you say I can or I can't, you will always be right." Most of you probably have the thought the people are out to get you on a regular basis. Keep thinking that and guess what, people will be out to get you!

  246. Damian says:

    Ryan,
    Couldn't have said it better myself. Well, maybe I could, but I'll give you the props anyway. everything you said was 100% right on target.

  247. Lazy Man says:

    Ryan, these arguments have been covered well over and over in this thread...
    - There is no quantifiable health benefit for MonaVie. There is a possibility that it might be as healthy as fruit (if it hasn't lost nutrition in the processing). If we are talking about medically proven then yes, your priority should be health.
    - Even if there is a health benefit, MonaVie distributors here (see Danielle) have agreed that we don't even know what really in MonaVie. $1500 for roll of the dice that there might be something that might be helpful sounds expensive to me. Unless you make a million dollar a year, you'll spend myself in the poorhouse trying everything that has the same (or more) potential as MonaVie.
    - If a car allows me to work and protects my income necessary for medically proven health medications, I choose the car. Anyone who doesn't had their priorities a little out there. No car = no money = no MonaVie either.
    - Don't invest in maintaining health? Have you met my other site: Lazy Man and Health?

    Everyone I have seen in MLM has to put on the face of a go-getter, good attitude or else they won't be able to sell their product. As a software engineer, I don't have put on my "salesman happy face."

    Ryan, this discussion is not about being on the distributor side of MonaVie. It's not about making money that way. It's about the consumer side. If it's such a great opportunity from the distributor side, it has be a very poor opportunity from the consumer side. The distributors make that money from the consumers.

    Just people others make worse decisions (betting their childrens dinner money), doesn't make this a good one. If I steal a purse from an old lady is it okay because someone else just murdered another old lady. No, both are wrong and have to judged against the right thing to do, which is help the old lady across the street and move on.

    Negativity: This has to be something that MonaVie distributors are coached on... it comes up time and time in this discussion. It's never really backed behind any logic on why any side is negative. I say selling little more than a placebo at $1500 is negative. MonaVie distributors say that me calling it a placebo is negative.

    It depends on what side of the fence you are on. MonaVie distributors seem to say that you should try everything and see for yourself. I don't agree that it's possible to do that with most incomes. Go into a GNC and try to buy everything on the shelves... it will cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    At some point, you have to use your own logic... What is this medically proven to do? Is there a cheaper/better way to accomplish the same thing? Are people making claims on either side potentially biased? What does either side have to gain monetarily by supporting their stance?

    When I ask myself those questions, I don't see favorable answers for MonaVie. (Note that the "I" statements here give my own opinion on the matter.)

  248. chris says:

    i like it and im making money

  249. strongbodystrongmind, Myrtle Beach SC says:

    Hey guys,
    I am totally with you on the pyramid thing. My husband and I are not into selling stuff. We've been invited to many of these stupid pyramid scams before with all of the hooplah about how we will make so much money. We just let it go in one ear and out of the other because we are trying to be courteous to some "friend" that invited us. However, you have to listen to this. I am a personal trainer and have a pretty large clientele that I have been building for about 8 years. I am very picky about my work and DO NOT suggest supplements or anything like it to my clients. I had a friend ask me to try Monavie and listed some of its benefits. Lowered cholesterol was one of them. Although I work out and eat very healthy my cholesterol has always been very high - heredity. I have had two doctors try to get me to start taking med's at the age of 36!! Hello!! Wasn't interested!! When my girlfriend mentioned the cholesterol thing I thought -what the heck. I waited and had my cholesterol checked before drinking it. I drank two bottles over the next couple of weeks (2 oz in the am only-I can't risk loss of sleep at night!!) Because of my busy schedule another week went by without Monavie before I had my cholesterol checked again. I went in the second time to check it just knowing it was a complete waste of time. My cholesterol dropped 26 points!!! I almost fell out of the chair - NO KIDDING!! I immediately called my husband and said, "I'm sold". I will find a way to fit it into our budget. WE AREN'T RICH AND DON'T SPEND THAT KIND OF MONEY ON THINGS!! My cholesterol hasn't been below 200 -ever!! Call it a scam, call it what you want. I am a believer!! I told my clients this story and they are drinking it and finding various benefits from it. I am not sure what my future or wallet holds with Monavie. But speaking from a health perspective, if it works people will find money for it no matter what the price. I just want to sell enough to pay for my own supply. I am not a salesman by choice, but when you believe in something it sells itself. I have worked too hard to build my clientele to lose it over trying to sell my clients some kind of garbage!! I offered my clients a free work out session if they felt they had wasted their money and I have yet to train any of them for free. I do feel that Monavie will be a nice additive to our wallets in the future without even trying!

  250. Lazy Man says:

    "if it works people will find money for it no matter what the price" - strongbodystrongmind...

    If it works, the medical community will prove it to do so with studies. Anyone who can do it has too much to gain to just ignore it. Solving the world's cholesterol problem makes you an instant multi-millionaire. You'd get the Nobel Peace Prize for Medicine.

    If no one is proving it, it's probably because either no one wants to become a multi-millionaire or because they can't. I'm betting on the later because I don't know anyone who doesn't want to be multi-millionaire.

  251. Anonymous says:

    I would personally stay away from Monavie as I've heard bad things. That being said, acai itself is something amazing. Try getting it from a good retailer. Sambazon is really good if you're in the US.

  252. mac donaldson says:

    Dear Lazyman:

    I would challenge anyone who is claiming that it lowered their cholesterol to stop using it and just eat healthy (fruits, etc) and see if they get the same result. Too many people are looking for a quick fix and would rather take pills (or mona vie) and continue to eat crap. I person I know lowered their cholesterol by over 80 points in over 3 months on pills, yet suffered the "rare side effects" If people would eat and exercise right, in most cases your body knows what to do. And as far as negativiy goes, how can anyone be blamed for being negative. It's not like there's no one trying to steal our identities, get our credit card numbers, tell us to come to the casino to win (when they really wants us to lose), etc. etc. Do you think the casino cares if some senior gets hooked and loses their life savings, NO. And the people out their selling this cure-all (as the preacher did with me- guarenteed it would take away all my stomach inflamation) are just as bad, they are only in it to make themselves rich at others expense. And what's even worse are this company's executives sitting in their office knowing that their distributors WILL misrepresent their product for sales, and laughing all the way to the bank. They just cover themselves on their website saying this has no medicinal value. As I stated before there's NOTHING WORSE in my opinion than people who takes advantage of people who are in distress. For all the supporters out there I'd love to know how you can justify this product knowing that the CEO was "brought down" before. Do you really think this is trustworthy or do you not care as long as your making a quick buck. Do you think anyone would buy $40 bottle juice if it has no medicinal value? Remember there's a price to be paid later when you cheat people today. So long, keep up the good work..MAC

  253. mac donaldson says:

    Dear Lazyman: just one additional item I did not mention. The 2-4 oz they gave me to try made my stomach quite upset the next morning (I did not have anything else, so it had to be that), although I'm sure to some that will be "just a co-incidence" see ya

  254. Damian says:

    MacDonaldson:
    We all have different taste buds and tolerate foods differently. I am sure there are plenty of foods you may eat that would probably upset my stomach. So hopefully, you are not trying to use that scenario as an argument. you said "Do you think anyone would buy a $40 bottle of juice if it has no medicinal value"...no I don't. Thats why people buy it...because they believe there is value.

    One interesting aspect here...all the people against Monavie think that everyone who is buying Monavie is a distributor trying to make money. Have you checked Ebay lately? There are over 400 listings and almost all of them have people bidding on their products. Do you think those people bidding are distributors? no, because it is more beneficial to them to buy from themselves. All those people purchasing this product drink it because they feel the effects...not because they are trying to make money. And all these people CHOOSE to go to Ebay in search of it....they are not tricked into a tasting at someones house and forced to buy the product.
    On a side note: I personally apologize for all the scam artist, and money seeking vultures out there that are involved as Monavie Distributors. It is a shame that I have to be classified as one of them just because my wife and I are involved with Monavie.

  255. Lazy Man says:

    It's interesting to me that when someone gives negative MonaVie anecdotal evidence it's not an effective argument. When it's positive anecdotal evidence, like the medical claims, then it's an effective argument.

    I hear a lot of "everyone is different", that's a convenient thing for the distributors to say, because it coerces each person to try it. It's half the sales job and is used all kinds of industries. Problem is that you can't try everything as I pointed out in GNC example above.

    Damian said, "That's why people buy [MonaVie] ... because they believe there is [medicinal] value." It's probably because they've heard all the illegal medical testimonies from distributors.

    Interesting thought about Ebay. Why are people selling it there? If it's so good, you'd think they'd be keeping it for themselves rather than pawn it off at a discount. It seems like exercise equipment to me... some people try it, realize that it's not going to be a part of their lives and want to clear it out.

    As for buyers, perhaps they realize they are distributors looking to buy it back on the cheap to resell.

    Maybe it's just like the theological belief we discussed in comment 220. Ebay sales isn't proof that something works. You have to remember that people bid on stuff like cornflakes that look like Elvis there too.

  256. Damian says:

    I never said Ebay is proof that something works. It shows that people are buying it who are not distributors. I have analyzed the sales on Ebay, and it makes no sense whatso ever for a distributor to purchase product there.
    And how can you say that the term "Everyone is different" coerces people to try it? I have no problem having an adult conversational debate, but please don't use ridiculous remark.
    Everyone is different is the fact of life. As you would appreciate...It is Scientifically proven that everyone is different. What doesn't work for you, may work for me. That goes with just about anything or product in our society. So don't use a common proven fact against the terminology used.
    Why are people selling it on Ebay or anyother site...I think that is called...ummmm...a business.
    Your problem is your so stuck on hearing the scientific proof that nothing else matters. it likes if your neighborbor says he has changes form drinking Monavie...what are you gonna say, " Your a liar till it's published in a scientific medical journal"?
    Thats crap and your judging everyone on no good basis. So now evryone who has anything to say thats good about Monavie is making an "illegal" claim?. I have no problem hearing or reading about the negatives....thats why I am here....but I do have a problem when you say all distributors are making illegal and false claims.
    Why can't you just say, "if there are people who can afford it, and they feel its making them healthy or whatever else they feel, good for them. I say to you to keep drinking"?

    Instead of saying they are making "illegal" claims.

  257. Lazy Man says:

    Okay, so people are buying it Ebay who aren't distributors. When you have 300 million people in the country, there's going to be a subset who do all kinds of things. Some of them may or may not be the smartest choices. I see a lot of people who don't wear seat belts as well. I can't see making it a claim that one shouldn't wear seat belts.

    How can you say that the saying "everyone is different" doesn't coerce people to try it. It's pretty straight forward:
    Jim: I read on the Huffington Post that MonaVie has no scientific basis.
    Fred: Eh, everyone is different. Why do you try it and find out for yourself?
    Jim: Er, I still have 75 different varieties of Hoodia to finish trying. The first 12 didn't work, but I believe one of them is going to.
    Fred: Hmm, yeah, looks like you got your work cut out there trying every product ever made. It's a good thing you bring in 2 million in income every year to pay for it.
    Jim: Yeah, that's really helped a lot.

    Why should anything other than scientific proof matter? Scientific proof is what makes MonaVie have more value than a piece of fruit or a vitamin. It's the only reason I can see why someone would pay so much more for it (maybe we can discuss others). Otherwise, you financially and medically better off taking Lattimore's awesome pills and a piece of fruit. You get the belief that it works and the science behind years of fruit studies being good for you.

    I never said anyone has made a false claim. I never called anyone a liar or anything of that nature. I've only repeated what Vogel has said about the distributors making medical claims is illegal. I'm not a lawyer, but I believe this to be true (and why MonaVie itself makes no medical claims). I'm not going to round up the people who left their MonaVie distributor URL here and wrote about how it cured their this and that, but it's way into the double digits.

    "Why can't you just say, 'if there are people who can afford it, and they feel its making them healthy or whatever else they feel, good for them. I say to you to keep drinking?'"

    I've already said this - see comment 186. Keep in mind that there's a lot of people who misjudge what they can afford. It's a large reason why a lot of people are in debt.

  258. Damian says:

    Even if there was scientific proof....it still does not mean it is for everyone. Being published in a scientific journal does not automatically make it the #1 product for every single person because everybody's body is different. Just like I said in comment#?????...tylenol doesn't work for me...advil does.
    Last week when I was at the ER with my wife (unfortunently Monavie did not heal her recent hysterectomy) there was man in the next cubby space complaining to the doctor he is on his 9 or 10th blood pressure medicine. None of them were working to lower his blood pressure. All the medications were FDA approved....I am sure all were in some medical journal somewhere. But they weren't working (and no I did not hand him a business card...wanted too...but didn't).
    Eventually one day....either you or I will be proven wrong...I hope it's you...but if it is me...I will stand corrected.

    People misjudge what they can afford....I couldn't agree more. All you got to do is look at the housing problem for that one.
    But I don't think $3.00 a day is way out of the line for Monavie. the grocery store fruits are more than that.

  259. Lazy Man says:

    I thought Monavie was $4 a day ($120 or so a month). That's what other distributors have said. See comment #183 for how much $10 a day matters. It's huge, don't kid yourself into thinking that $4 is not much. I don't know anyone who would turn down $1460 a year. As mentioned if you have a family of 3, you are spending over $4300 a year. That's significant money when the average income is close to around $44,000 a year. It's like 13% of your after tax income. Grocery fruits are much cheaper and might not have lost any potency during processing.

    I agree, it might not work in everyone. I don't expect anything to be 100% perfect. However, at least Tylenol and Advil have been scientific proven to work some percent of the time... actually an extremely large percent of the time.

    MonaVie has not been proven to work even 1% of the time. It has been proven to do nothing more for that man's blood pressure than lattimore's pills.

    "Eventually one day... either you or I will be proven wrong" This day would have already come if it really did the things that people are experiencing BEYOND a placebo control.

    Otherwise, the best business in the world is to spend a thousand dollars and doing a scientfic test by the book. If you are right, and I hope you are, it will make millions upon millions of dollars as the person who found a cure for all these maladies. You'll be on the Today Show, David Letterman... in a minute you'll be more famous than Jared is for Subway.

    If anyone here is so sure that MonaVie works, I challenge you to bring the scientific proof to the public... make yourself an instant millionaire. It would be real service to your own finances, MonaVie, and the civilized world.

  260. Damian says:

    If yo buy monavie in bulk (12 cases) it comes out to $20.73 a bottle or $2.96 a day. Of course, there are people who can't afford to buiy 12 cases at once so they choose to buy just one or two cases which raises the price. I do disagree with the fruits at the grocery store being cheaper...since my wife is currently laid up, I had the pleasure...or should I say displeasure of doing the grocery shopping this past weekend. Fruit is NOT cheap by any means.
    I am familiar with how much XXX amount a day is. i am a David Bach fan...I believe he calls it the Latte factor.

    This comment you made:

    "Eventually one day... either you or I will be proven wrong" This day would have already come if it really did the things that people are experiencing BEYOND a placebo control.

    Very interesting. Looks like I may have to do a little digging on why that day hasnt come yet.

  261. Lazy Man says:

    12 cases at one time? Is that like 48 bottles (4 to a case)? I'm trying to think where I would store 48 bottles. Maybe this is why everyone talks of becoming a distributor, get rid of the inventory from the bulk purchase, sell for a little more money and win.

    I'd be concerned about buying 48 bottles of MonaVie at one time. It doesn't seem like it would retain it's antioxidant properties as well. I would think it would need preservatives and that might counter the goodness in MonaVie vs. fruit.

    Your fruit must be more expensive than mine in San Francisco. It's not cheap, but it's less than $90-120 a person per month. Apples at my store were $109 a pound, and those were the expensive apples.

  262. Ryan says:

    LazyMan,
    A few things about your post. So you are saying that because a product is good on the distributor side that it is bad on the consumer side? Really? The company you work for is in business for ONE reason, to make money. If I have the best product on the market why can't it be a win-win situation for the consumer and the distributor. The consumer buys the best product on the market and the distributor gets credit for introducing it. Why is everyone so worried that if they buy something someone else will make money?

    Have you heard of abundance before. If not try and attend a Klemmer and Associates Champions workshop (they are held nationwide). An economy is a self-feeding mechanism. This means that if the economy exists of only you and I, than if you don't make money how can I? I work at a car dealership and I see this all of the time. Everyone thinks of every last penny they spend as it being their last. Nobody will ever make money that way.

    About Mona Vie. More and more studies are proving the Acai Berry to be one of the greatest foods on the planet. It makes up approximately 40% of Mona Vie. It takes so much energy to build and sustain one berry that when they are harvested they will perish in a very short amount of time. Because of this it not feasible to bring it here in berry form which is why we don't see it in stores. So, it is freeze dried (dehydrated) by Mona Vie through a patent pending process that is PROVEN to not lose any nutritional value in the process. But, I'm sure you know all of this since you have done enough research to choose the side of the "FENCE" you stand on.

    Have you tried Mona Vie or at least been to a presentation? I hadn't until a couple of weeks ago. I had my judgements against such a thing. I am a very logical person. I am very analytical and I rarely jump into something. But, you know what, I'm doing it and doing well at it already. Within one year I will be quitting my job that I do so other people above me can make money just like in Mona Vie. The only difference is that in Mona Vie I will make more than those above me because of my hard work and it won't take me twenty years. My dad has been with the same company for 25 years and is even a union employee. His 25 year gift...a set of silverware (he has never even called in sick). I don't know about you but that sounds like insanity to me. But, that's all he knows because he was taught to save and not spend. Well, not spending is what keeps us going nowhere.

    What software engineer company do you work for? I would like to look into their profit margins because as you said it, if there is too much profit than it's not a good deal for the consumers.

    Oh, and about investing in a car. I have been in the car business for 2.5 years now. I would say 99% of the customers buy more car than they NEED even if it is for business.

    You were negative about the negative topic. WOW! It never ends!

    Next time you ask yourself if Mona Vie seems favorable, ask yourself if you really got all the info and if you every really had an open mind to it. It doesn't matter what I say because you won't let your mind be open to it. The fact that you started this thread shows that you have interest, but that you are too set in your ways to open up to it. There would be no other reason for posting this.

  263. Vogel says:

    I NOW have a negative opinion of Monavie in large part because of the apparent inability of distributors to promote it honestly and accurately. Attending a Monavie presentation or drinking the juice can't possibly change that.

    As an example, let's looks at a basic claim that Ryan makes: "More and more studies are proving the Acai Berry to be one of the greatest foods on the planet. It makes up approximately 40% of Mona Vie."

    First, there is no official source to confirm that Monavie consists of 40% acai, or for that matter, the percentage of any of the ingredients. This is allegedly a closely guarded proprietary secret and now suddenly we have this 40% figure being tossed out. Any proof or is this just another unsubstantiated claim?

    Second, the rest of Ryan's statement is pure hyperbole - "more and more studies... proving... one of the greatest foods on the planet"? This type of claim is tangible and can easily be checked for accuracy. Try a PubMed search for research articles with "acai" in the title (enter "acai[ti]") and you will see that only 4 articles were published in 2007-2008 (8 in total for all years). Of those four, 2 studied an enriched oil extract of acai (not whole fruit), 1 was a review article in an obscure Spanish journal, and the other was written by Alex Schauss of AIBMR on behalf of Monavie LLC. More importantly, neither these nor any other published studies ever showed acai to be one of the best foods on the planet, and none have ever demonstrated actual health benefits from consuming acai (let alone acai-containing mixed juice products like Monavie). In other words there aren't "more and more studies" are they are not showing that acai is "one of the greatest foods on the planet" or that it is miraculous in any way. And even if it were (big IF), we still don't know how much of it Monavie contains.
    .

  264. Lazy Man says:

    Ryan, Vogel answered most of the stuffy, but I will address a couple of things.

    I generally am a contract software engineer. Companies hire me to perform a job and then I move on to another job. I also run this website which exists on advertising and takes no money from consumers.

    Yes, if the economy exists of only two people it's a zero-sum game, either you have money or I do. I don't see how that's relevant here.

    By pretty much any standard measure, MonaVie would be one of the most expensive foods if you put it in the supermarket. I know a bottle of V8 is not near $32. And then you plan to quit your job in one year due to MonaVie. So we have the most expensive product and people quitting their job in one year. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night unless I had proven medical information that I was really providing tangible benefit to them.

    Fortunately all the software companies, I've worked for do provide some kind of tangible benefit for the clients. People don't pay you for vaporware.

  265. DJ Mona Vie says:

    Wonderful debate, got hooked on this site for the controversy. Still support Mona Vie and the juicers who use it. We know what you don't. Some people have experienced huge improvements of health. Others just know it is good for them. The Amazon has fruits that are not available to us in the States. What makes a person think that an apple grown here has the same nutrients as a apple grown in the Amazon. Have you studied its abundant soil? I still eat fruit, but none compare to the nutrients found in Mona Vie.

  266. Lazy Man says:

    DJ MonaVie, what new does this add since previous conversation?

    Fruit has nutrients that you just can get from something that's been processed and bottled for a long time. What makes one think this might compare with the freshness and unprocessed nature of fruit? In processing, only nutrients can be lost, unless there are additives that might have their own issues.

    Importing fruit from the Amazon requires a lot of jet fuel which pollutes our environment. Read about why you should eat locally.

  267. BCN says:

    I like the points made on this discussion, as usual some are beneficial & some...well they add less value. Not to presuppose that I make total sense, but this is my position. We have to look at the whole enterprise...this is a health & wealth based opportunity...both together. Myself as a pure skeptic of "these things" had to look at it this way. I am looking for a business to run. In order to supplement my income. #1 I am not willing to invest a lot of borrowed money form a bank. #2 I want low operating costs #3 It has to involve a growing trend. At that point I am looking for those who want the health and/or the wealth side of an opportunity. If that is not you, then great I refuse to waste my time or theirs in coercing' them.

    So the minute we veer away from a business to business comparison, the discussion, to me, is useless. E.g., It seems the prope discussion would be to weigh the pros and cons of starting your own business with company A or B. Outside of that, why waste your time?

    The compensation this company offers (MV) is top notch compared to many other pay for performance opps.

    If thats not your gig, then fine, why add fuel to a fire when its not necessary. To spark a good fire, what are some ways to add to our current economy? I heard that this company registered approx 75K ppl in the last 30 days. What if just a small percentage of those ppl were able to alter their own and someone close to them, finacial future b/c of this OPPORTUNITY?

  268. Lazy Man says:

    BCN, you came looking for a comparison on the business opportunity. I'm sorry, but I really only wanted to deal the consumers' aspect on this one.

    I don't see this topic as a fire that I was adding fuel to, I had never even heard of it until my wife was approached and I did research. I often write about choices that we make as a consumer and this was just another one of those. I have another article about why I like FoodSavers that I thought was just as good as this one (though apparently far less controversial).

    Here's my advice... If you are looking to start a business, look for something you believe in. If you are already skeptical, it might be an uphill climb. Plus IF your skepticism proves to be justified (notice that I use the word "IF" there), wouldn't you feel horrible having made money on something that doesn't work.

    All three of your business objectives can be accomplished with blogging. I make no excuses that I earn money from this and my health blog... and it's growing. I have spread enough good information that I have thousands of readers every day. If I'm factually wrong (and it does happen) a reader will usually tell me, I'll correct it, and we all become wiser for it.

    I'm not saying that blogging is the answer, but I'm pointing out another business that is free of skepticism and (mostly) controversy.

  269. Ryan says:

    Lazy Man,
    You have got to be kidding me. An economy with two people would not be one person with all the money and the other with none. Obviously, if one didn't have a means to pay the other, than NOBODY would have money.

    I have a little project for you. Now this is overly simpliefied but I think even you will get the point. Imagine you and three friends (3+1=4) see each other every day. Let's say you are all abundant people. So once per day you guys willingly pass one dollar on to another in a preset order. At the end of one month how much money did you bring in? And how much money did you give out? About $30 for both. Now imagine that you want things to really pick up. So ten times per day you pass the money around. $300. The point here is that if nobody were to spend than nobody would make any money. The more you value $1 the harder it will be for you to make $1.

    How do you figure it would be one of the most expensive foods. If you would just actually look into the product before you judge it that would be great. 4oz (daily recommended) will cost between $4 and $5 depending on how much you buy at a time. The thing is that those 4oz are equal in nutrients and antioxidants 13 servings of fruit. An apple is about $1/apple anymore. 13 apples times $1 is $13. I take my health very serious and I constantly am researching how to improve it.

    Mona Vie will never be able to have medical studies reported on it because it is not a medicine and by law can't say such things as it will prolong your life or it will relieve joint pain. What we can say is that it contains Acai and other fruits which have been PROVEN to aid in health one way or another. Also, Active contains Glucosamine which has been CLINICALLY PROVEN to strengthen and even repair damaged joints.

    These are facts. They are all out there. You are only looking for the reasons why Mona Vie is not good. Funny thing is, there are NO FACTS proving such. Everything you say on here is OPINION because you have no experience with it and have done no research beyond listening to other nay sayers talk about it. Just as Mona Vie distrubitors must be careful about the representations we make about the product you MUST be careful with your representations about the product. Funny thing is that if Mona Vie wanted to, I'm sure they could find a statement of yours that is slander without fact backing it and they could take you down very fast.

    Also, about your website. You get paid right? Then obviously you have customers. No, they aren't the people that are reading the page, but the advertisers. They are your consumers. To me you are ripping them off because I wouldn't ever click on an ad on some random Joes website, so you are charging them for something they think they will get but because of you credibility they won't.

    I hope you noticed I'm talking in extremes just as you have done. I'm, as you would say, on the other side of the fence.

    What would be wrong with me making enough money representing something I use and believe in myself to quit my job? I don't know about you but working for someone else on their conditions isn't very fun. I'd rather work with friend when I want where I want. You are a slave to your company and they pay you with thousandths of a percent of their revenues.

    I do envy that you went out and started a website. Great. It takes more work than people think. I'm sure you didn't do it for the money though. You are a distributor of pixel space. If you are making money, according to your terms, than your consumers are getting ripped off. Think about these things before you say them.

    I can deal with naive people, mean people, angry people, slow people and even lyers, but I will never deal with Hypocrasy!

  270. Candace says:

    An interesting read on MLMs in general written by Jon M. Taylor, Ph.D., Consumer Awareness Institute:
    http://web.archive.org/web/20060709122620/www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/resources/12tests1.pdf

    Another interesting MLM read with some great resource links at the end:
    http://web.archive.org/web/20060613195147/www.vandruff.com/mlm.html

    The FTC's advertising guide for dietary supplements:
    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/dietsupp.shtm

    I post these links not to begin a discussion on all MLMs or to bash all MLMs, but simply to show that there are some common "issues" that are trouble signs with MLMs, and MonaVie as a company hits most of the markers that indicate something to be wary of.

    I am not saying the juice isn't good juice.

    I am saying that one could purchase similar fresh fruits, juices, or supplements for much much less money. And according to those who have taken the time to document their experiences, the same or comparable health benefits were reported at a fraction of the cost of buying MonaVie.

    It appears to me that MonaVie may be offering a good nutritional beverage, but they have grossly inflated the price and are allowing their distributors to make illegal medical claims. I am not saying the medical claims are true or false, but I am saying that it is apparent that the same reported health benefits can come from other natural sources that are far less expensive.

    And, again, for the record, 8 weeks on the juice as recommended, no positive benefits noticed here.

  271. Lazy Man says:

    Ryan, I didn't say that an economy of two people would yield one with all the money and other with none. An economy of two people implies that you aren't bringing in outside money. Thus if you have $100 between them, each have some percentage of that money. If you are to make money in a economy of two, your only choice is provide value from that other person to convince him to give up his money. Then you have more and he has less.

    "The point here is that if nobody were to spend than nobody would make any money." I agree with this, I wrote and article today about just that concept. The other side of the coin, is that if someone spends, they have less money. In a closed economy it's a see-saw, a zero-sum game.

    I have seen the product. My wife has taken the two bottle trial with no benefits observed. That counts as experience with it to me. If it doesn't qualify for you, then you are in the "everyone is different, just try it" camp that was discussed yesterday.

    "The thing is that those 4oz are equal in nutrients and antioxidants 13 servings of fruit." - See comment #70 and follow the link there, this is simply not proven to be true and throws off the whole argument. Come back with actual science backing this up and we can discuss that.

    MonaVie proponents can't have play the "both a food and medicine" game. They claim anecdotal medical benefits, then turn around and say that it can't be tested as a medicine because it's a food. If that's the case, I should go back and delete all the comments in this thread where someone said that it provided them some medical benefit. Since we've just taken the medical benefit argument off the table, we are just two foods. As Danielle, a MonaVie proponent said, (paraphrasing) "we don't know what's in our food." So we can't judge one to be better than the other on the food basis either. I guess V8 wins the tie-breaker by being cheaper.

    Ryan, there's no hypocrisy here. My customers are the readers - if I don't have them, I'm out of business. If an advertiser backs out, another will take it's place.... as long I am providing value to the readers. Sure NBC cares about it's advertising, but they also focus on putting the best shows to get viewers. They want to have the next Cosby Show, Friends, and Seinfeld because they know that advertisers will be there.

    I cater to the readers, providing them with the maximum value I can, and advertisers ask me to give me money. Just because you don't click on ad, doesn't mean I'm ripping off advertisers. They have specific ways of measuring performance. If I'm not delivering them a TANGIBLE, MEASURABLE benefit they stop advertising with me. They simply don't advertise with me because they just "believe that it works", which is what Damian suggested one do with MonaVie.

    Thanks for getting us back on topic Candace. It's been few dozen comments since I reiterated that MonaVie has to prove its value above cheaper alternatives.

  272. Damian says:

    Candace you are trying to make good points, however, I have to disagree with a few of them. In one statment you say that distributors are making illegal claims. Then you say your not saying if their claims are true or false. Monavie does not have a gag order in place. The company does not make the claims and the company does not allow a person to state that Monavie claims(fill in the blank).
    Who are you, or I, or Lazyman, or Vogel to say that people or lying about the claims they make? Are their false claims? Absolutely. But there are also false claims in many, many other products just to get them sold. That goes for anything from houses, to finances, to cars. I for one do not like it those claims nor make them.
    And please tell me where I can buy all the fruits that are in Monavie.

    Your record is noted of no benefits. But as I stated before, not everyone will feel a difference.

  273. BCN says:

    Candace:
    I would like to see which points you feel the company itself, monavie, "hits the markers" as you stated, for someone to be "wary" of.?.? I just listened to a MV sponsored audio dictated by an attorney that works specifically with MV and only in the MLM industry, siting the very specifics that a distributor needs to be aware of. He and his team methodically review the marketing material that monavie produces to ensure it does not make any claims that could cause trouble based on the FTC regulations. So if you could site these claims that are made BY MONAVIE regulated materials, I would like to be made aware of them.

  274. Vogel says:

    Damian, regarding the medical claims made here about Monavie, the issue is not whether the people making the claims are being truthful; it is that:
    (a) Testimonials have zero value, particularly when they come from anonymous sources. There are many worthless fraudulent products that use or have used similar testimonials, so they simply do not help consumers discriminate between good and bad products. Testimonials like these cannot be validated and no cause-and-effect relationship can be established from them. Furthermore, there is a strong financial incentive for people to lie or exaggerate.
    (b) Distributors who make medical claims about Monavie, and there have been many on this forum, are violating the law – plain and simple. They are also violating the terms of their distributor agreement which prohibits them from making such claims. You are right that we are not in a position to know whether the claims are true (which is why part of the reason why they are useless); but we are in a position to judge that many of these claims are illegal, not to mention highly unethical.
    Without all of these dubious medical claims, it would be exceedingly difficult for people to sell Monavie, given the product's lack of detailed ingredient information, substantiating research, and extraordinarily high price relative to other better established alternatives.
    Regarding BCN's last comment, the issue is not whether Monavie LLC regulates the claims they make in their official marketing materials, it is what the distributors are saying in practice, and many are making prohibited medical claims about the product. The individuals making these claims are legally culpable, and in all likelihood, the company would suffer FDA/FTC sanctions in the event that they are unable to control the claims made by their distributors (and clearly, they are unable to properly control these claims). However, I would go a step further and say that the misinformation about health benefits originates at the higher levels of the company. I have seen video of distributor meetings on UTube in which the senior distributor running the meeting encourages the people in the room to share their medical miracle story. Clearly, they are laying the foundation for other distributors to emulate and make more illegal disease claims.

  275. lattimore says:

    My super pills are now being run through the awesome process twice. thats double the 8x level of awesome from before....16x awesomes. All my friends say it rocks. They now only cost $14 a piece of you order 1/2 a warehouse at a time.

    Dont let the negative antipillite detractors deter you from trying my pills. They are too good not to take. My buddy Barry is now cranking out 12 studies a day to prove that my pills are better than everything. Its not medically confirmed yet but Barry has been living on these pills and these pills alone for 3 years. NO OTHER SUPPLEMENTAL INTAKE OF ANYTHING...AIR INCLUDED. We all react differently to awesome. it may not make you air independent. There hasnt been any fancy studies yet but i stand by my claim that it is 100 percent effective against bear attack.

    Remember, everyone can afford my super pills. they take the place of every other thing you could spend money on. All you have to do is take my super pills, sell my super pills to all your friends and family (real work is for suckers) and sit back and rake in major profit and super major awesome. Go ahead wait till your awesome levels are all screwed up and see how much you have to spend to get it back right.

  276. lattimore says:

    one other thing. we should all defer to Wayne Gretzky in all matters (if Barry isnt available). Remember Gretzky is "the great one"

    "100% of the shots you don't take don't go in."
    Wayne Gretzky

    Now if the above quote doesnt have you ordering my super pills right now you are an idiot. How do you know my pills arent super and overflowing with awesome if you arent ordering them and cramming them down your gullet?

  277. lattimore says:

    Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
    Mark Twain [Samuel Langhornne Clemens] (1835-1910)

    If you listen real close you can hear the Super Pill endorsement

  278. Ryan says:

    LazyMan,
    The claims that individuals make about themselves are nothing more than that. Maybe someone did actually try everything on the market and nothing worked and finally something did. If I was that person I could state what benefit it had for ME. You are just like every other consumer out there. Looking for a quick fix. A pill or something that will make everything hunky dory. The damage we do to our bodies happens over decades. You think you would see benefits from something within the time it takes to drink 2 bottles. Dr. Ray Strand states that supplements need to be take at least 6 months and up to 1 year to see the benefit. Also, look up ORAC. They will tell you the benefits of Acai and Mona Vie. I don't have time to list the details but an acai berry has an orac score of over 1000 and most fruits don't even score at a 100. Not only that but in fluid content it is highly absorbed by the body.

    I'm done with this conversation. I ask you to keep an open mind. I don't want you to find your foot in your mouth years down the road. Everyone is looking for answers. You will never find them without trying one one.

    You should be talking about something constructive like how statins have never been proven to lower death rates and often times increase them. Talk about a scandal.

    Mona Vie isn't a miracle juice. It's a juice loaded with nutrients that we can't get from our nutrient depleted fruits and veggies. I could post studies on all of this all day but there is a study proving just about everything on both sides so it is an endless trail.

    Where else in your life do you find yourself feeling like others are trying to take you or scam you? Your friendships? With your coworkers? I trusted your site enough to give an email address to you. The least you good to is trust and give respect to those opinions and ideas that myself and other readers suggest. I have found value in Mona Vie for dozens of reasons and so have thousands and probably into the millions of people. There is a reason for that. There is so much consumer protection out there that any "scam" as you called it would be smothered by lawsuits and government intervention. This falls right in line with the everybody is out to get me thought process. There are a few reasons the economy has started to really struggle. Number one is that everybody is so worried about what others are making. Number two is that there are rarely loyal customers anymore. And number 3 is because people are scared to spend. I guess I don't really understand the point of this site. Is it to tell people about a product. It's all hear say anyways.

    And you still aren't getting the point of the two man economy. I'm talking about two people on the entire planet. You and me. I am good at building huts. You raise livestock. I need food and you need shelter. What do we do. We TRADE. If we trade a lot I will have abundant food and you will have abundant shelter. If you are too scared to give up your asset (livestock) than why would I give up mine (hut). That is economy 101. ZERO money can be made unless it is spent. Well until the Fed began printing money years ago anyway...WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE INFLATION! If you let your money go I promise more will come in. That is the nature of money (or livestock and huts if you will).

    Get out of your box. We don't need 8-5 jobs. I will work 60 hours a week for myself but not on someone elses terms. So, I'm going for it. I'm not looking back. I'm going to make enough money to live my dreams and make others come true. If you have a cause to give to you are being irresponsible by not doing everything in your power to give everything you have to it. What are you committed to? Nay saying every product that hits the market. Trying to get others to agree with you so you feel good that "yeah I got people to hate Mona Vie". How old are we anyways?

    Users are NOT your customers. Look up the definition of a customer. I don't pay you anything. I'm not your customer.

  279. Candace says:

    Damien, first let me congratulate you on having a wife with a lovely name, I failed to reply to your post about that. I think how she spells it is rather pretty. :-) I hope she is faring better and that her health after the hysterectomy is improving.

    Yes, I said that distributors are making illegal claims, which they are. According to the FTC and also according to MonaVie's own "rules", they cannot make medical claims without the scientific data to back it up. Those are just the facts.

    Yes, I said that "I am not saying the medical claims are true or false, but I am saying that it is apparent that the same reported health benefits can come from other natural sources that are far less expensive."

    I, just like MonaVie and it's distributors, cannot blindly state that the medical claims are true. Cannot because there's not been any proven scientific study that documents these health benefits to be true. I have willingly, in good faith, also said that will not say those claims are false, either. I have no way of knowing all of the factors going into one person's illness or health concerns, their diet, their lifestyle, their family history, or their genetic make-up. Therefore, in good faith, I chose to not call those claims "false". Do I look at them with a critical eye, you bet I do. The same critical eye I use when my kids want to go play in the canal with their neighbor friend who plays there every day all day. I do not think it is safe at all, but perhaps he is informed and experienced enough for that activity to be relatively "safe" for him. It doesn't mean I am going to make a blanket statement that says "yes, I think this activity is safe". In that same way I chose to say that I neither state that the medical claims made by people using MonaVie are true OR false. I cannot say that. I do not know. The fact is, no one "knows". There's been no unbiased 3rd party independent double blind studies done on exactly what medicinal value MonaVie has.

    I take the stand that we would all feel better and be healthier if we were to consume fresh fruits and vegetables as recommended. I do not think it has to be at the price of 20.00 - 40.00 a bottle that for a family of 4 lasts only one day.

    I've been researching this quite a bit and have found a few supplements/juices/powders that make many of the same claims as MonaVie, (not the illegal claims, the legit claims), with the biggest differences being that they list all of their ingredients, the amount of said ingredients in said product, and they cost fractions of what MonaVie does. One that I am considering trying would take care of a family of 4 for under $50.00 a month. A much more reasonable price for what appears to be a good product, available in stores, not direct marketed marketed by MLM or Chain selling. No, I will not post the name here, as it is not important, what is important is that consumers can find this information themselves by some googling and some time spent reading and comparing.

    My concerns: it still concerns me that we do not know the amount of Acai in one bottle of MonaVie. It concerns me that it's not certified organic. It concerns me that it does not list a preservative in the juice, but it is expected to sit on shelves for who knows how long considering people are ordering cases of bottles at a time. I do not *want* it to have a preservative in it, I am just saying...how can it ship all over the world and sit on shelves and stay fresh...when they list no preservatives? I do see that they have added MaltoDextrin to the MonaVie Gel, which makes sense, but I don't like. Knowing this...how is it possible to have a bottled fruit juice with 19 different kinds of berries in it be shelf stable and preserve any of it's efficacy? The two seem counter-intuitive to one another. A product needs a preservative to be shelf stable...so I don't quite understand how they've eliminated that and still keep the juice "fresh".

    So there is no misunderstanding, I am not in favor of preservatives in my food, but I do know that usually when a food is marketed to be shelf stable, it includes preservatives of one form or another. My last personal concern is still the money. The price is so inflated. If Monavie would go through all the necessary testing and studies required to back it's medical benefits, then I could understand the "cost" of said product. Then it would be classed "medicinal" and have a place in the huge money making business of modern medicine. But for now, it's simply a fruit juice that costs a LOT of money.

    And I did not say that you or I could "go buy all the fruits that are in MonaVie", please re-read my post. What I *did* say was "I am saying that one could purchase similar fresh fruits, juices, or supplements for much much less money." Similar, I never said the same exact fruits. However, if you'll take the time to search, you'll find information on the FDA's website and other health organizations' websites stating that many medical issues stem from inadequate fruit and vegetable intake. That's a no-brainer, and no one's trying to cover anything up or hide anything. It is a fact.

    The point I am trying to make here is this:
    There is always a health benefit to eating and living right. Always. But the eating right and living right need not carry such a high financial cost to the consumer.

    I have no "issues" with MonaVie's juice. None. I DO have issues with them grossly overcharging people. I also have issues with something being so incredibly expensive that even at the wholesale cost it is still "too" expensive for most average consumers. That huge mark-up is one way for MLMs to front-load their businesses...people HAVE to "get in" to get the product that they've been told their bodies cannot live without so they can barely still afford to purchase the product for their own use. Then, to offset that high financial cost, they can begin sponsoring people, and "make" money while "helping" others. The typical MLM spiel. The fact of the matter is this, the MLM will not survive without continuously adding "new businesses". Another fact is this: most people cannot afford to buy the juice at $40.00 a bottle, so if they truly believe that it is all that they are being told it is, they will "sign-up" to get it at wholesale. Even then, the product will cost too much for most people, especially people with families larger than 2 members. So, then, what are they to do? Why, recommend the product to their friends and family of course!
    And then the cycle perpetuates itself.

    It's just not a very confidence instilling way to do business or to present oneself. Yes, MLMs have been around for a long time. And they will be for some time yet to come. But so have some other really really nasty things in history. Doesn't make it a good idea.

    So, Damien, I don't honestly know what it is that you are disagreeing with me on, but I hope I clarified what I said in my previous post a bit better. I do understand your perspective, I truly do. As a business owner, network marketer for MonaVie you have stated your case and you've been polite about it, not pushy or overbearing. Your conversation has been quite pleasant, actually. And that is something that cannot be said for the vast majority of network marketing people I have met, and I have met a ton. I appreciate your position, your wife's health issues, and your personal feelings about the MonaVie juice. Which, again, is the reason I chose to word my post the way I did. I cannot say if the medical claims are true or false. You have your experiences, and I have mine. We can agree to disagree, and that's fine by me, but neither one of us can state that MonaVie is going to cure the ailments people have. But I can most certainly state that the product is far too expensive.

    Somewhere, someone is putting the difference or at least a portion of the difference between actual cost and the "wholesale cost" into their own pockets. This is the concern with MLMs in general. It is typical of them to over inflate prices of products, and to charge extra or too much for "support materials". And then it is typical of them to entice prospects by tempting them with the "savings" they could have on their own stuff if they "get in".

    This alone is a red flag.

  280. lattimore says:

    Ryan is right. I'm also tired of people bagging on my super pills. What right do you people (i'm looking dead at you Lazyman) to keep me from spreading my awesome. Here is why i am right and you all are wrong.

    first. asbestos causes cancer. this may not seem to directly apply to our conversation, but hell it does cause cancer.

    second. you need to take my super pills for 2-3 years every day to get your awesome levels truely awesome. check back after you've gone through 172 cycles of my pills.

    third. in 40 years when awesome is shown to hold the universe together i wont rub it in too much.

    and finally. I could flood this forum with Barry's studies. but people like you dont even recognize his awesomeness. You would rather believe in the scientific process and triple deaf studifications. I hope your mother didnt spend alot on your education.

    My product can make you super rich and air independent. obviously i'm talking to a bunch of haters.

  281. lattimore says:

    i left the word have out of the second sentance of my last post. Super Pill extreme Euphoria is a little overwhelming at times

  282. lattimore says:

    It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
    Francois Marie Arouet (1694-1778)

    See, even voltaire knows i'm right and he's been dead for like 230 years

  283. Candace says:

    @BCN: Do you bother to read any posts before you post?? "An interesting read on MLMs in general written by Jon M. Taylor, Ph.D., Consumer Awareness Institute:
    http://web.archive.org/web/20060709122620/www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/resources/12tests1.pdf "

    There ya go, that's just for you.
    Read 'em, be honest with yourself, and realize that MonaVie hits most of those markers.

  284. lattimore says:

    just checked ebay for mona lisa smile juice.

    400 + entries for the juice and other related things.

    also

    272 entries for dowsing rods and pendulums.
    78 entries for magic amulets
    4 entries and 18 store entries for xray glasses
    17 entries for magic beans
    181 entries for free energy
    205 entries for magic crystals

    and the most disturbing part was there was 190 responses from people supposedly selling super pills of some sort. Barry is getting with our legal dept. to get to the bottom of this

  285. Lazy Man says:

    Ryan, do you read what I've written before you make judgments like "You are just like every other consumer out there. Looking for a quick fix. A pill or something that will make everything hunky dory." Have you visited Lazy Man and Health to see my progress on 100 pushups or how I'm eating mostly, fruit, edamame, and nuts this week because I'm working from a hotel room without a microwave.

    If it takes 6 months or a year to see effects why did the MonaVie support only give my wife 2 bottles worth? It's like getting a test drive of 100 feet - useless. If "trying" MonaVie means that you have put out $700-1400 upfront, well I can't imagine why anyone would do that. Is it based on anonymous, potentially illegal and unethical testimonials? That's not going to be worth it.

    Ryan said, "I ask you to keep an open mind. Everyone is looking for answers. You will never find them without trying one." Do you have an open mind about Lattimore's bear attack and awesomeness pills? Have you tried them? What about shark cartilage? And Hoodia? And chromium picolinate? Have you tried every brand of those as well?

    It's a simple fact that one can not pursue every avenue. One has to look at the evidence to determine which avenues are worth spending our limited resources on. I only ask for that evidence.

    As for ORAC, I've looked it up. Please read the story linked to on comment 70. It's been well-covered and it doesn't have any significant weight behind it. In fact, if you do more searching other juices have higher ORAC values.

    Ryan said, "Where else in your life do you find yourself feeling like others are trying to take you or scam you?" You do realize that I have written posts more or less every day for two years. Go back and read them to find out how many times I think someone has tried to scam me. I think I might have mentioned it 2 to 3 times. The problem is that you only read this one post and make huge false generalizations on it.

    The readers I trust are the regular readers, people who have commented on posts other than this one. They would have left a comment around when this was published back in April. However, many of the people commenting now are MonaVie distributors because they searched Google and found that this post ranks highly. My guess is that they fear that the number of people finding this on Google will hurt their business. After a presentation, people go home, search Google, find the arguments here, and decide not to become distributors. That's bad for MonaVie distributors.

    "I guess I don't really understand the point of this site." It's about getting the information out there to consumers. MonaVie proponents have shown their evidence and others like Vogel present his. The consumer makes up their mind. Unlike some places, I take a stand and I stand on the side with Vogel. It still comes down to show me the evidence.

    Ryan, thanks for the economy 101, you obviously didn't read the post I posted much, much earlier today, did you? I'm not against spending as long as the person is getting something of value in return. If you want to sell me your huts, for my well wishes and happy thoughts because I say my well wishes are worth a lot of huts, you'd call me nuts. I'd say that MonaVie to this point in the discussion has established itself as being worth the price of a little livestock (the same as fruit), but is sold for 200 herds of livestock due to happy thoughts that surround it.

    "Get out of your box. We don't need 8-5 jobs." I agree, I don't have a 8-5 job either. If you were a regular reader you'd know that ;-).

    "What are you committed to? Nay-saying every product that hits the market." You're reading this blog, that's one of the things I'm committed to. Read around and tell me how many products I nay-say. My most popular article is 15 Products that Save Time, Money, and Space. Tell me how that's nay-saying.

  286. BCN says:

    Candace:
    I DID read that article. Even the second time, and I am asking you to point out the monavie approved materials that demonstrate the 'negative' aspects that article brings up.
    I can read it and see, in my less than 3 month experience with MV, how they pass MANY of those points brought up in the article. I am not asking about a potentially ignorant yet excited distributor or rogue websites claims, I want to see where MV itself has approved materials that the FTC would consider a false and illegal claim. Please, my income is depending on seeing this information and I want to be made aware of it..

  287. lattimore says:

    bcn

    the first test is the "opportunity test" you know is it presented as a product or as an opportunity to make money also. i cant quote monavie but post #268

    We have to look at the whole enterprise... this is a health & wealth based opportunity... both together. Myself as a pure skeptic of "these things" had to look at it this way. I am looking for a business to run. In order to supplement my income. #1 I am not willing to invest a lot of borrowed money form a bank. #2 I want low operating costs #3 It has to involve a growing trend. At that point I am looking for those who want the health and/or the wealth side of an opportunity.

    who posted that?

  288. lattimore says:

    2nd test is the market reality test. once again lets look at post #268

    I am looking for a business to run. In order to supplement my income. #1 I am not willing to invest a lot of borrowed money form a bank. #2 I want low operating costs #3 It has to involve a growing trend. At that point I am looking for those who want the health and/or the wealth side of an opportunity

    point # 3 made in post #268 kinda falls under the market reality test. can monavie provide us the information the test is asking for. it would be awesome if you could post it.

  289. lattimore says:

    point 3 was the product test. we cant reference monavie literature for this. it is asking you if you think the product would sell good in a normal store. How much 40 fruit juice is getting sold without the claims that distributors are making? I bet not near as much as when people say it will cure everything (including excess money in the bank)

  290. lattimore says:

    instead of me posting all the ways monavie fails (miserably) at all the points in the good doc's article why dont you post all the monavie documents that prove how awesome monavie is. especially post the one that tells how much each percentile of its distributors make. i'd love to know what the average distributor makes.

  291. Candace says:

    BCN:
    Please go back and re-read every single post I have here...there are quite a few.
    No where in *any* post did I ever say that "MV itself has approved materials that the FTC would consider a false and illegal claim". You are taking my words out of context, looking for a fight about something I never said.

    What I have said, several times, is that MonaVie distributors are making false claims, or at the very least questionable claims that are, by the FTC's standards illegal, and by MonaVie's website's *public* standards unacceptable. We don't see MonaVie doing anything to curtail the websites that are popping up everywhere with people making medical claims. We do not hear MonaVie saying that distributors making these claims will be corrected. We DO hear independent MoanVie distributors and their upline in the same room urging each other to share their medical benefits and cures.

    If you've been "in" MonaVIe for 3 months, and you don't see how they hit at least 50% of those markers, you, my friend, have blinders on. oops, there I go, being "negative".

    If your income is dependent upon this information, then you are in the wrong line of "work". This information is readily available from the FTC. And any MLM, to comply with the FTC must publish material showing how they are "in compliance" with the FTC. Then, all you have to do...it's so easy...is go through the list and take note of what is customary practice by the distributors, and what is being "said up front" by the MLM itself.

    I was going to list each marker tediously, one by one, in depth. I won't bore everyone. I've read that list about 10 times, and every single time, I can answer "yes" to each marker in regards to the business known as MonaVie. This *may* be due to how the distributors I've talked to represented it...in error, I imagine you'll say. Markers number 8 & 10 I will grant you that those are entirely up to the distributor who is selling their product, perhaps you've not seen that, but I most certainly have, from MonaVie and other MLMs.

    I fail to see how you can disagree with MonaVie falling under these markers.

    And just because you have information from MonaVie themselves telling you how "in compliance" (or however they word it) they are, this does nothing to impress me. Give me information from a non biased 3rd party not paid by MonaVie, not financially motivated by MonaVie (or it's owners or subsidiaries, if there are any). I am not impressed one whit by your lawyer that's on MonaVie's payroll that tells you everything is on the up and up. It might be, it might not. But just because MonaVie has hired some lawyer to say so, I am supposed to believe it? I think not. I daresay it's more likely that the lawyer has ample experience on how to word things, present things, shape things, mold things, to make them look the very best they can. I am not saying your lawyer *has* done that, I am just saying it's very possible, it happens all the time.

    I've been around network marketing and MLMs for many years. I've had up close personal one on one experiences with MLM names that would be recognized by many people around the globe, regardless of their MLM affiliation. I am VERY aware of how things can be made to look one way, I am very aware of how little is disclosed to the downlines in MLMs until their business is to the point where they can "handle" such important private business information. I know a great deal more than most beginning network marketers, information that took years to uncover, information that is still being fought over in legal arenas, people who are now in jail and other people who are now divorced, others who are bankrupt now, either morally, ethically, financially, or spiritually, or even all of the above.

    So, no, I am not impressed when you tell me you have a lawyer who makes sure the MLM is on the up-and-up.

    I am not saying MonaVie is crooked. I am not saying they are doing anything illegal, I have no proof of that. What I am saying is that in the typical MLM, crooked activities and shady business dealings can go on behind closed doors all the time. Typically, a distributor will not know a thing about it...until they've alienated all of their friends, co-workers, and family, and then it's a bit late to eat crow. This is said from the perspective of someone who has been around MLMs for many many years. I've watched family members dive off into them, I've even leapt into one myself that I removed myself from after about 8-10 years of frenzied network marketing. Once the blinders came off, it was very sad and disgusting.

    No, this is not "sour grapes" talking, bitterness, or a "failure". I turned my business (not a small business, either) over to my upline when I decided there were things happening that were immoral, illegal, unethical, and just very bad business. I *chose* to go. Was the best choice I ever made. No regrets, no bitterness, no sour grapes. Just completely amazed at how long and how well improper tactics and bad practices can continue, can thrive, and be so well hidden.

    You need to read carefully, watch closely, observe silently, do the right things always, and if MonaVie is everything you believe it to be, then you should have nothing but resounding success.

    But please, whatever you do, don't fall into the trap of going into debt to "build" this business. Keep your whits about you, stay sharp...stay honest. Time will tell.

  292. lattimore says:

    i apologize for ranting today with so many posts.

    Just one more ( i hope ).

    i've seen alot of people say on here that monavie doesnt endorse anyone giving out testomonials about the efficacy of its product for curing ailments.

    google monavie. the third response is a youtube video of geoff bodine talking about how monavie helped him stop hurting from a nascar wreck. If monavie doesnt endorse this kind of activity wouldnt they have noticed this since its the 3rd thing that comes up when you look up their company's name. The person who posted the video is named "monavie executive". i'm just saying.

  293. Lazy Man says:

    Lattimore your super pills must have even more awesomeness in them that you say... your logic makes too much sense.

    This post ranks somewhere between 5-8 on Google most days. There are another pile of examples here. If MonaVie is discouraging people from doing this sort of thing, they'd have this content taken down. They'd have a place where one could report distributors who are making the claims that they so vehemently against.

    MonaVie hasn't contacted me. No representative has said, "We are concerned about MonaVie employees/distributors making medical claims about MonaVie on your website."

    The Napster case showed that the parent company had responsibility to curtail widespread illegal actions by the users of a product. MonaVie doesn't just have these users, they EMPLOY and PAY them.

  294. Candace says:

    Exactly, Lattimore. Exactly.
    You N Me, we're both Just Sayin'...

    BTW, any ideas what I can do with all this left over oxygen and carbon dioxide now that I am not air dependent thanx to your awesome super pills?

    Maybe if you offer it to 5 of your friends, and then they offer it to 5 of theirs....

  295. lattimore says:

    just finished watching the whoe video. its a hoot. that juice cures everything.

    candace
    we're donating all the left over o2 and co2 to charity in third world countries.

  296. Candace says:

    Lazy Man, you said "MonaVie hasn't contacted me. No representative has said, "We are concerned about MonaVie employees/distributors making medical claims about MonaVie on your website."

    I was wondering about that myself.
    Thanx for the info. :-)

  297. lattimore says:

    whole video!!! whoe video is something totttaly different

  298. Candace says:

    @ Lattimore:
    HA!! You just made me spit my water at my monitor! 8-)

    I feel like I should apologize for the lengthy posts, especially the last one that went off topic a bit. In replying to BCN I got more in depth with the MLM thing than I wanted to for this particular site.

    The bottom line is that the MonaVie juice is just too dang expensive without having a proven reason to be so. As far as consumer spending and value for your dollar, there appear to be many other ways to get the juice/fruits/vegetables one should be eating/drinking.

    No more ultra-lengthy posts from me. Sorry all! :-)

  299. Vogel says:

    I've seen the entire Geoof Bodine video too and it is outrageous. Distributor after distributor telling medical miracle tales while their upline stands by encouraging them, and a big Monavie banner in the background. It makes the agenda crystal clear in my opinion. It's ALL about medical claims. How else could anyone sell fruit punch for $40 a bottle? That video was posted in November 2006 and if Monavie LLC were truly against illegal promotion, they would have had it removed long ago. For all we know that video had the head office's blessing.

    With this sort of thing going, distributors have to recognize that there is a significant risk that the FDA/FTC is going to find the company liable and come down on them hard for all of the flagrantly illegal medical claims. If that were to happen, how will the distributor appear in the eyes of all those people to whom they recommended the product so enthusiastically?

  300. Lazy Man says:

    Vogel, another practical thing to consider is that if the FDA/FTC does come down on MonaVie, MonaVie could have sanctions against selling its product or other penalties.

    These penalties could cause distributors to lose their entire income stream overnight. If I were looking for a business opportunity, I'd look for one with some security in it.

  301. Vogel says:

    Agreed. If such action is taken by the FDA/FTC (and one has to be aware that this is a distinct possibility) the whole business could come to a screeching halt virtually overnight. That's the way these things typically end - all it takes is an FDA enforcement action and some TV exposure and the next thing you know, distributors won't be able to give away their Monavie. Dallin Larsen and the uplines will get out with what they've banked so far, but the average distributor will be stuck with all those cases of Monavie rotting in their basement.

    Oh yeah, that reminds me, I do recall hearing that Monavie contains sodium benzoate as a preservative (yet another detail without a clear cut answer), so it might not rot too quickly but on the other hand, who wants to be drinking sodium benzoate - it's nasty stuff.

  302. Mrs Cooney says:

    The age and health of your cells can be determined by a TBARS test. Take you supplement and retest in 30 days if your cellular age has dropped by about 20 years great job! If not but you love the juice go to the Asian market and buy your juice for just a few dollars. Its a great way to find these high end MLM products much cheaper and in a can.
    I take protandim and it did lower my TBARS which is the oxadive stress of a cell. Your Dr. can explain how all of these anti-oxadive supplements are meant to do this.
    I say just take protadim the only supplement proven In a REAL medical study to do this. Its cheap, easy, and no MLM. Order your own Tbar and see for yourself.

  303. lattimore says:

    some of us are sticklers for the old double blind peer reviewed kinda testing. who did the real test?

    havent dealt with protadim before but there sure are alot of asterixs on the ends of sentences on its site.

  304. Ryan says:

    LazyMan,

    Here is some homework for you. Now you may have seen some of these before but I don't have time to read every word of every post. Also, I will apologize for assuming that you are a nay sayer. I have looked through your previous posts and found that for some reason MonaVie really struck you as wrong. I'm trying to provide you with some evidence as to why it's a good thing. If I have chosen that Mona Vie is a good thing it isn't without research and loads of knowledge. I'm no dummy. I was top male graduate at the University I attended. Also, I was and Academic All American. So from someone of knowledge to another here are some things that are just the tip of the iceberg as far as what is out there. Please check them all out when you have time. And don't forget to read my cost breakdown at the end. It is great! I do apologize for starting any hostility, as I'm not that way in person. I feel that you were mistaken in saying that a business can't be a good one if the distributors are making money because that would be bad for consumers. Great products come with great demand. I have never misrepresented MonaVie as a product or a business and people still love it. They want a chance at health and wealth. And it's about time as healthcare costs are ridiculous these days. 16% of every dollar goes to health care and that will be one third in 25 years according the the comptroller general of the government accountability office (see GAO). It's time we take care of ourselves. Why should I have to pay the same health insurance rates being healthy, supplement taking, MonaVie drinking, extremely health eating (don't eat foods with any flour even wheat flour to give you an idea) versus someone who is 50, smokes, drinks, doesn't exercise and eats like crap. I shouldn't. This is why I was the only person in the organization I work for that had no negative markers and a comprehensive wellness test out of 60 people.
    It sounds like you have chosen health as well. Good for you. It is more rare than you think. I hope you are gooding all the things you need to live long, strong and plentiful life. So, here are some readings/videos to support my choice.

    YouTube Fox video on MonaVie - [Editor's note: I hear a lot of studies that they are citing, but I haven't seen them. Keep in mind that the 10 o'clock news runs these kind of pieces all the time, so that they can readers interested. The whole night they'll have 10-second teasers saying over the top things like, "Fountain of youth in a bottle? Find out tonight at 10." It's sensationalism at it's finest.

    Acai.vg - [Editor's note: Nothing on this page is backed up with anything scientific. I could make all the same claims of backberries.]

    Acai.vg ORAC - [Editor's note: ORAC scale is debunked with the link at comment #70]

    Acai and the ORAC Scale - [Editor's note: Article isn't at this URL. ORAC scale is debunked with the link at comment #70]

    This is a Doctor giving here testimony - [Editor's note: Notice that she says that her friend developed MonaVie. Can you get more biased than that? She never says that MonaVie has more antioxidants than cheaper fruit, just that it's a source of them. We don't necessary disagree that MonaVie has antioxidants - but so does my cheap multivitamin. I love how she finished it by saying that we have 60% more power than we are using. What is the definition of power and how is it measured? It sounds like Lattimore's awesomeness. Also, see comment #70 for link of multiple doctors debunking MonaVie.]

    another ORAC value post with the daily recommended ORAC intake - [Editor's note: That article lead to this one, which lead to this USDA page on ORAC. I downloaded the information and found that one glass of red wine has a 3800 ORAC value (Cabernet has 5000+ ORAC). Trader Joe's sells Charles Shaw red wine for $1.99 or $2.99 a bottle depending on where you live. That's more than the USDA daily recommended value. Since I can get 4 glasses of wine from a bottle, I get a days worth for 50 to 75 cents. And don't get me started on the 51,000+ ORAC value of baking chocolate. I could get it down to pennies a day.

    MonaVie supported foundation that 100% of all donations go to...most companies only pay 50% of proceeds to their causes while the other 50% goes to "administrative costs" - [Editor's note: Lots of discussion about this charity earlier in the comments. I'm not sure if it went anywhere, but I'd rather donate my money straight to the charity of my choice.]

    YouTube report on Brazilian Rain Forest. Some discussion of Acai - [Editor's note: No mention of MonaVie in this. See comment #3 for an actual Brazilian's account. It was posted on the day I wrote the story from a regular reader, not a biased MonaVie person that came in after it became popular on Google.]

    MonaVie Home Page - [Editor's note: I don't see any specific value here. Should I be looking for something? How can anything here not be biased?]

    Aibmr PDF - [Editor's note: I covered this in the original article. People pointed out that this was commissioned by Monavie and wasn't peer-reviewed.]

    How much do some people pay for glucosamine supplements? - [Editor's note: Did you see the last few paragraphs of this link? It's all about the numerous health risks of glucosamine. Also there's this, "One of the largest studies on glucosamine for osteoarthritis was a 6-month study sponsored by the National Institutes of Health... Glucosamine or chondroitin alone or in combination didn't reduce pain in the overall group" - So we have something that's also unproven and potentially dangerous added. This is a selling point?

    Another YouTube video (I'm sure the doctor in this video isn't willing to risk her license over false presumptions) - [Editor's note: OMG this is evidence? It's a MonaVie distributor saying, "adding fruits to our diets have been shown through many, many studies that it will prevent disease." (1:37-1:42 mark of the video). We know this, have been through this 100 times, it doesn't give MonaVie an advantage over... fruit. Also it ends with the distributor making many medical claims. Did MonaVie kick her out of the program? Where can I find this out?

    Food Pyramid - [Editor's note: Yay a food pyramid, what does this prove again?]

    As we know the government is way behind when it comes to health but they say 2-4 servings per day...take one ounce of monavie per day and you are there...cost of 1oz is less than 1 dollar...try and get your 2-4 servings cheaper and with anywhere close the same amount of antioxidant value...and oh yeah with good fats, protiens and fiber...oh and don't forget to try and squeeze in that glucosamine supplement within that $1 to help keep the pain out of the knees you (I don't mean you specifically LazyMan) have been on for your employer that is making all the money while the people below him/her are making less and so on...wait a minute...that sounds like a pyramid...quit now!!! Run!!! Funny thing is that within two weeks me and my wife are making more than our sponsor.

  305. Lazy Man says:

    That's a lot of reading. I left comments after each one, didn't see any real evidence there. If anything, I know see the value in red wine and dark chocolate/cocoa.

    "Why should I have to pay the same health insurance rates being healthy, supplement taking, MonaVie drinking, extremely health eating (don't eat foods with any flour even wheat flour to give you an idea) versus someone who is 50, smokes, drinks, doesn't exercise and eats like crap." I agree with everything here except that you imply that MonaVie is healthy which isn't necessary proven to be the case (good try though). You'll want to read my post here where I make exactly the same argument... Tax the Unhealthy - Lazy Man's Thoughts.

    There's no need to go into health statistics, it doesn't help MonaVie's case. No one argues for bad health or that we should pay more for health care. We want to be as healthy as possible for a reasonable cost. People may not like the "reasonable" cost, but you wouldn't buy a $10,000 monthly gym membership right? At some point, you'd just jog or work out at home.

  306. Ryan says:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-jonny-bowden/new-rules-no-more-claimin_b_106562.html

    This is your proof that the ORAC score is "debunked". WOW!

    In the title of the article he knocks MonaVie but never says once says anything directly related to MonaVie.

    Why are the Doctors that you read from more credible than the ones I found?

    And about the glucosamine article. You picked out the two negative notes in an article filled with reasons why glucosamine is good. You have got to be kidding me!

    And above everything else in every one of you statements you were coy and spiteful. Nice line on the food guide pyramid. No comment on the break down dollar for dollar on the servings?

    Oh and about all your BS on MonaVie potentially being taken down where is the proof for that. Where are your facts. They are a legit corporation and have been for 3.5 years. People have had plenty of time to debunk MonaVie and apparently it hasn't worked.

    You remind me of Barry Minkow right now. You are saying that there is not one positive thing about Mona Vie.

    I was big enough to apologize for my false presumptions. Have you ever retracted or apologized for any of your comments? If not, than I'm sure that means you were never wrong.

    Last of all, if it's such a scam why don't you file a lawsuit against Mona Vie. You know, really expose them.

    Your argument against the articles I found were that other articles and comments disproved them. Why are you the judge? I didn't know you were a doctor. I mean you are upset that people selling Mona Vie make claims without being educated enough to do so. Where is your education to say that Mona Vie isn't good. You are making just as extreme claims just on the other side of the fence as you would call it.

    I will tell you that you are good with words. The biggest thing that hurts your argument is that you fail to support one argument from the other side. More people would listen to what you say if you connected better. Inside nobody is EVER completely on one side or the other.

  307. BCN says:

    lattimore: You are taking a PhD's information and calling it the bible. Why? B/c of the PhD tag? This "test" says absolutely nothing to me, even as a skeptic. There is nothing wrong with offering a money making opp and health benefit at the same time. That is the nature of the MV opportunity. What experience do you have that makes the "opportunity test" even valid? Where in pyramid law & regulation does it state that just because their are BOTH product benefits and welath opps that this is a flag of being illegal or not legit?

  308. BCN says:

    Candace:
    It wholy obvious you have a less than fun experience in the field...I dont expect you to be impressed with any lawyers info for the sake of being a lawyer...but I see no difference in blindly believing some random PhD's words as to a supposed validity test on MLM's either. He has his own agenda too ya know, no different than you or I. I was involved in an old ntework for yearrrs and will admit having blinders. But I know that with every experience comes a valuable lesson and the field of networking is the future of business. I am chosing to do my best to represent it well and make it a mainstream legit business. You will ALWAYS have people problems, ya think that corporate America doesnt have these same issues? I hope you dont. I would MUCH rather deal with them in a pay by perfomrance industry than one with red tape and an income ceiling.

  309. Candace says:

    At what point do you suppose that distributors will understand that all of their information is coming from MonaVie and that there's no information extolling the proven benefits of this ultra expensive juice coming from any other source besides MonaVie?

    Rhetorical question.

  310. lattimore says:

    dude is that juice making you drunk?

    you said that your fruit punch passed the tests in the referenced article. i pointed out that you posted stuff contradictory to that.

    and yes. phd does mean something. lots of school and education. why dont you let my man Barry do some open heart surgery on you. he is the most awesome guy i know.

    As far as the oppurtunity test being valid.. well my doctor has never handed me something and said "lattimore, i dont have any real proof this works, but if you take it, it will make that rash go away. and it will be real cheap if you sell it to."

    the people selling fruits and vegetables dont have a distributorship opportunity attached to tomatoes (unless you intend on planting the seeds).

    make money. i'm fine with that. i'm questioning the value of your product. I like how you can discount the scientific process. thats what we use to determine if something works. its not some super complex magical system (unlike mlm pay schemes). It is the same for everything. Why wouldnt a peer reviewed double blind study be good for monavie? Would a survey of morbidly obese peoples opinions on healthy food be more usefull for you? You need to get real. if what a doctor says doesnt mean anything to you then next time you get sick, go to the nearest homeless person you can find and ask him to take your temperature. I'm looking for proof this is worth its price. Its being marketed for health benefits. PhDs are useually a little more educated than most on what is healthy. This excludes the ones paid for their participation, hence the peer reviewed part.

  311. Damian says:

    Candace:
    In your reply to me, thanks for the support of my wife's health. Unfortunately, she went back into the hospital last night. Not to get off topic...but if any of you are aware of a "wound vac", I would love as much info as you can share. This is my email address for that reason (don't know if lazyman will delete it)[email protected] [Editor's note: thought about it, but since you are willfully sharing it, I suppose it can stay. Let me know if you ever want it deleted...]

    Now Candace, your last post to me was taken to heart. I have no rebuttal at this time. It appears you have done some good research, and for me to even try and disagree with you would be juvenile. I love debates because I find them educational. But only if you have an open mind. I find it disappointing to read the comments on here from distributors when they throw out insults and what not.
    And for the record" Lazyman, Lattimore, Vogel, Candace....
    I do not disagree with your arguments, but I don't agree with them all. In other words, I am not here to say you are all wrong. In fact, in a lot of your arguments you are correct.
    Enough of that...I have more pressing issues to attend to...like I mentioned before...if anyone here has had experience or nay knowledge with a "Wound Vac", please share with me. My wife had one connected last night.

  312. Lazy Man says:

    Ryan,
    The doctors that you reference simply say that MonaVie is a good way to get the fruits that we need. None of them make a claim of it being any better than fruit. And one of the doctors is a friend of the person who owns MonaVie. Remember we are looking for non-biased here.

    The Huffington Post article makes legit claims about how anyone could fabricate ORAC values. Google "million ORAC" and you'll find a pill If ORAC is what it's supposed to be, I should spend my money there. Oh wait, the body can only digest so much ORAC. So I'm back to dark chocolate to being the best ORAC value for my money.

    Glucosomine - We have the National Institute of Health, the largest scientific study, and that's not enough?

    Food Pyramid - I didn't think the stuff below related to the food pyramid. I didn't understand why it was there.

    Breakdown of Costs - How does 1 oz. of MonaVie equal 2-4 servings of fruit? Is there basis for this claim... is this where ORAC comes into play? If so, is one serving of cocoa worth more than five servings of MonaVie?

    If MonaVie can prove that one ounce is equal to 2-4 servings of fruit, it goes a long way for MonaVie to be economically viable in my mind. Then it comes down why is the recommendation something like 4oz a day if it should be 1oz. (The answer isn't because we need more fruit in our diets, we can supplement the rest from our normal eating.)

    "Oh and about all your BS on MonaVie potentially being taken down where is the proof for that. Where are your facts. They are a legit corporation and have been for 3.5 years. People have had plenty of time to debunk MonaVie and apparently it hasn't worked."

    It's not about debunking the product, it's about MonaVie's practice of turning a blind eye towards the medical claims being made by their distributors. MonaVie has a responsibility to keep their employees in line with the law. I have proof in this chain of comments that they aren't doing that.

    What's the value in me filing a law suit against MonaVie? What damages could I claim? Who is going to pay for my lawyer expenses? How would I get paid for all my time spent pursuing this? Candace might have a case to win some of her money back, but I didn't put any money in to have refunded.

    "Inside nobody is EVER completely on one side or the other." - I'm pretty much 100% against paying $100,000 for a Yugo. I don't know anyone who wouldn't be completely against that. Like MonaVie, maybe it performs its purpose. It gets someone from point A to point B, but that doesn't make the cost of $100,000 a fair price.

    That may be an extreme analogy, but I think it gets my point across.

  313. lattimore says:

    save another 25k and i'll sell you my jeep :P

  314. Candace says:

    Lazy Man wrote:
    Candace might have a case to win some of her money back, but I didn't put any money in to have refunded.

    Nope, not even worth it. These companies have so much big money behind them that they will gladly tie up every resource the person making the lawsuit has for years and years. I've witnessed it. It matters not if they are right or wrong, the legal fees and time spent will take years off a person's life. Washing one's hands, even if it is hundreds of thousands of dollars, is a lot less stressful and far more productive. And they know this.I've seen decisions go in distributor's favor, only to be held up time after time with appeal after appeal. This could be a person's worst nightmare. And waiting on the FTC to make it's move, even though the infractions are blatantly obvious...you could sit and watch grass grow and feel more rewarded.

    DISCLAIMER: I am NOT talking about MonaVie the company. The company I refer to is huge, still in business, and shall remain nameless for legal reasons.

  315. Lazy Man says:

    Candace, you have a good point. I have compared it to a Napster lawsuit where the company was trying to claim that it was breaking no laws, but clearly earning a livelihood off of others who were.

    One person suing Napster wouldn't go very far. However, when a bigger company and bigger lawyers like the RIAA come in, it's a whole different game.

    I don't see an organized RIAA equivalent for MonaVie, unless we are talking about the FDA/FTC. As you say those organizations don't always move that fast. That doesn't make it any less illegal or unethical to use medical claims though.

  316. Candace says:

    Lazy Man,
    That's a pretty good comparison.

    And you're correct, it does not make it any less illegal to go against any of the FTC's requirements.

    Be advised that many of these type businesses have "arbitration" papers that are to be signed when one "gets in". I can't say all of them do, as I don't know, but I know many do. The thing about these arbitration agreements is that often the distributor does not know what it is they are signing, it isn't presented correctly or is just glossed over. When they are presented or someone asks "what is this" it is often presented in such a way that one believes or is told that it's to "protect" the distributor. Hey, it's a team of legal eagles put in place just to protect the distributor from someone suing them if say, they drink the product and it makes them sick, or they spill it on their carpet and have to have the carpet replaced, etc. Sounds good, right?

    In the end what it amounts to is that the distributor has signed away their rights to sue the company, or at the very least, can only be represented by lawyers that are on the company's payroll.

    Slippery companies, they sure can be. And they are not stupid. You better believe when push comes to shove they will protect the company before the distributor.

    FYI only, and again, I do not know if this is how MonaVie operates or not.

  317. Vogel says:

    Don't be too quick too dismiss the idea of a class action lawsuit. If there is a good case, there are lawyers who would be willing to take it on a contigency basis. And just as an example of how these cases can be successful, Airborne got penalized $23.3 million in a civil suit in which the Center for Science in the Public Interest was a co-plaintiff.

    Heading up a successful class action lawsuit could net one a lot of dough.

  318. Candace says:

    That is true.

    But it depends on how big the monster you're going up against is...and who they have connections to...and how deep that goes. When an MLM has been around for many, many years...and has many political ties that the general public isn't aware of...you could probably assume there's been a lot of hand greasing going on around the globe.

    Yes, there is some hand smacking (picture a teacher with a ruler)that happens...yes, there are some general things that they do "concede". Yes, after many years the equivalent of the FTC in another country does eventually catch up with them, but here, in the good ole USA there's a lot of alleged undercover shinanigans that allegedly go on.

    A completely hypothetical example: Picture the excited lawyer ready to do battle for the wrongs his client has been done...only to find out that said company purchased vacations for the past 5 years for all of the partners in said firm. Or some such thing. Sound like a John Grisham novel? The best fiction always has some basis in fact.

    And that's all I am going to say.

    Are you saying Airborne or Arbonne?

  319. Vogel says:

    Found an interesting research article on the ORAC score for acai. It's far from a high-tier journal but for what it's worth, it showed that acai had a lower ORAC score than ordinary grapes.
    http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0103-84782006000400037&lng=en&nrm=iso

    Out of curiousity, let's do some comparitive pricing. Here is grape juice at the supermarket selling at $2.50 for 64 oz. (3.9 cents per ounce).
    http://shop.safeway.com/dnet/RichProductInformation.aspx?promo_window=1&bpn=120020290

    Monavie sells at $40 for 25.5 oz. ($1.56 per ounce) - a 40-fold higher cost than the grape juice, even though the latter contains a fruit that has been shown (in one study at least) to have have a higher ORAC score than Monavie's acai.

  320. Vogel says:

    A quick minor correction. The article on acai actually reported TEAC scores, a slightly different measure of antioxidant capacity, rather than ORAC scores.

  321. BCN says:

    lattimore:
    Your concerns are fine...your right! I want proof that this stuff works and Vogel: the cost is not comparative to a juice in the store...you are justified in those concerns.

    My point in the PhD's write up is that he is a Doctor in What? Pyramid law? What basis does he have to make claims as he did in the opportunity test. I believe, in my experence, that it is a straw man "test" at best. It simply is a shallow statement and holds no water. Sure, I am glad a doctor has some interest, very educated...sure! My wife is a doctor dude. But she does not specialize in pyramid law and has no right to make statements as such. Even if this person specializes in that area, some of the "tests" are simply not detailed enough to hold up as evidence of condemning a company as candace referred to previously.

  322. BCN says:

    Vogel:
    Keep comparing grape juice prices in the store that is great to be a frugal person. Here is an exmaple...a family loved the results from their experience in drinking MV. However they were unwilling to purchase the product and could not see themselves doing the small amount of work necessary to get the product paid for thru business activites. They went to a store and bought three other juices and combined them together and are very happy with the results and the price. Awesome! They never would have known of the potential health benefits (by their OWN results experienced) had it not been for us introducing MV to them.

    Whats my point?

    They are not looking for the MV opportunity. Thats great, no big deal. We cannot compete with grape juice price comparisons in the sotre! It is not the same arena. Different sport. Different classroom...whatever u wanna call it. "I like McD's better than Panera Bread." GREAT Not the same thing. It would be silly of me to compare the price of Panera Bread to McD's...DIFFERENT MARKETS!

    I hope this makes snese.. It is not reasonable to compare the price of toilet paper at the local convenince store to that of Sam's Club toilet paper. They are appealing to different ppl. MV is not trying to compete with grape juice on the local store front.

  323. Lazy Man says:

    I can buy that MonaVie is in a different market than grape juice. I just don't know what that market is. As Vogel showed, it's just as healthy (note that BCN didn't disagree with that), so MonaVie wouldn't be able to compete on that basis.

    I buy food based on four factors (I wrote about this on Lazy Man and Health once). These are in no particular order:
    - Health
    - Taste
    - Convenience
    - Price

    If you give me all four of those, you've got a customer. Grape juice looks to give me 3 or 4 (depending on your taste) while MonaVie has 2 or 3 (again depending on your taste).

    BCN when you say:
    - "they were unwilling to purchase the product and could not see themselves doing the small amount of work necessary to get the product paid for thru business activities"
    and
    - "They are not looking for the MV opportunity"

    It makes it sound like the merit of MonaVie is through the MLM aspect of making money. That gets pretty close to looking like a pyramid system in my eyes.

  324. Candace says:

    What constitutes a pyramid scheme according to the FTC:

    http://www.ftc.gov/speeches/other/dvimf16.shtm

    Here is a direct quote from the Introduction section on page one:
    Pyramid schemes now come in so many forms that they may be difficult to recognize immediately. However, they all share one overriding characteristic. They promise consumers or investors large profits based primarily on recruiting others to join their program, not based on profits from any real investment or real sale of goods to the public. Some schemes may purport to sell a product, but they often simply use the product to hide their pyramid structure. There are two tell-tale signs that a product is simply being used to disguise a pyramid scheme: inventory loading and a lack of retail sales. Inventory loading occurs when a company's incentive program forces recruits to buy more products than they could ever sell, often at inflated prices. If this occurs throughout the company's distribution system, the people at the top of the pyramid reap substantial profits, even though little or no product moves to market. The people at the bottom make excessive payments for inventory that simply accumulates in their basements. A lack of retail sales is also a red flag that a pyramid exists. Many pyramid schemes will claim that their product is selling like hot cakes. However, on closer examination, the sales occur only between people inside the pyramid structure or to new recruits joining the structure, not to consumers out in the general public.

  325. Lazy Man says:

    The "accumulates in their basements" is an interesting thing. Since it's a consumable it's a little unlikely that will happen. However, there was a suggestion of buying 12 cases of it to get it to $20-ish a bottle price. I was thinking that I would store it in the basement in that time.

  326. Candace says:

    There is also this from the FTC's website:
    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/health/hea07.shtm

    Paragraph of note:
    "How to Spot False Claims

    When evaluating health-related claims, be skeptical. If something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Here are some signs of a fraudulent claim:

    * Statements that the product is a quick and effective cure-all or diagnostic tool for a wide variety of ailments. For example: "Extremely beneficial in the treatment of rheumatism, arthritis, infections, prostate problems, ulcers, cancer, heart trouble, hardening of the arteries and more."
    * Statements that suggest the product can treat or cure diseases. For example: "shrinks tumors" or "cures impotency."
    * Promotions that use words like "scientific breakthrough," "miraculous cure," "exclusive product," "secret ingredient" or "ancient remedy." For example: "A revolutionary innovation formulated by using proven principles of natural health-based medical science."
    * Text that uses impressive-sounding terms like these for a weight-loss product: "hunger stimulation point" and "thermogenesis."
    * Undocumented case histories or personal testimonials by consumers or doctors claiming amazing results. For example: "My husband has Alzheimer['s disease]. He began eating a teaspoonful of this product each day. And now in just 22 days he mowed the grass, cleaned out the garage, weeded the flower beds and we take our morning walk again."
    * Limited availability and advance payment requirements. For example: "Hurry. This offer will not last. Send us a check now to reserve your supply."
    * Promises of no-risk "money-back guarantees." For example: "If after 30 days you have not lost at least 4 pounds each week, your uncashed check will be returned to you."
    "

  327. Incidental74 says:

    Yo, check it out, this is a juice drink. Plain and simple. It's not a cure-all for everything and everyone. People have amnesia when it comes to claims of a new product that will cure all your problems; they forget about the shortcomings of products in days past. When anybody tries to convince you that something works, it probably doesn't, else they wouldn't try so hard to convince you.

    I would try Mona Vie, but it's way to expensive...I mean, c'mon, they've gotta be kidding. Even at 30 bucks a bottle (a measly weeks worth supply) for distributors/wholesale is steep. And if you've got a family, I guess they miss out, unless you're willing to shell out 200-300 bucks a month.

    I had a friend of a friend try to sell me some yesterday. Making claims that it helped out his child who is autistic. My son is also autistic, so I guess he thought that would increase the sale.

    At any rate, the vitamins and supplements industry is a trillion dollar industry. Mona Vie is just trying to get a piece of the pie...nothing wrong with that!! Goooooo capitolism!!!

  328. lattimore says:

    bcn in your arguement to vogel you said its apples to oranges with store fruit juice compared to your fruit juice. how so if you have no proof that MV is better than anything? Is it being sold as a fashion accessory now?

    i would love to see some w2's or statements from mv validating the big money claim they all talk about. the payout schemes are ridiculous. once mars goes into retrograde i'll be getting bonus checks out the wazoo.

  329. tony sparrow says:

    All I know is this. My wife's Fibromyalgia pain has significantly diminished after 4 weeks of use. She now sleeps all night! She no longer needs hand fulls of pills. We've spent thousands of dollars over the years on medical visits, pharmecueticals, chiorpractic hokum with absolutely no results.
    I suggested the juice to my neighbors brother who's wife is bed bound by MS in a nursing facility. After two weeks he says she has shown more signs of life than she has in months. She has gained 3 pounds, she is more alert and she sits up in her bed. The first thing she asks when he arrives twice a day is "did you bring my juice?"

    Pharmecuticals...hundreds & thousands...Therapy and treatments...thousands and thousands...In care facilities tens of thousands...hope at $4.40 a day...PRICELESS.

  330. Lazy Man says:

    For anyone seeing Tony's review, take look at the FTC's suggestion in comment 329... it hits both red flags of "quick and effective cure-all for a wide variety of ailments" and "personal testimonial."

    Lattimore's awesome pills also give you hope... at cheaper than $4.40 a day.

  331. Brian says:

    Isn't mary kay, avon and pampered chef all scams as well? Except they don't sell juice, they sell pots pans and makeup that can be bought at walmart.

  332. Jaymes M. Thirbon says:

    It's interesting how people that don't understand something or have failed in something call it a scam. I could easily say the same thing about ALL franchises because I lost more than $350,000 in a franchise water business over a 4 year period. So does that mean it's a scam? Of course not, it just means I wasn't very good at running a complex mainstream business. I have been in the MLM industry making a great living for the past 12 years and I can tell you that it's MUCH easier than doing payroll, paying rent, leasing or buying trucks, bottles and equipment. Plus it doesn't take hundreds of thousands of dollars to get started, it only takes a tiny up front investment which gets you a starter kit and then you purchase some stock each month. I invest about $300-400 per month to stock my business in which I earn more money than I could ever dream of making in the water business. As a matter of fact MLM has paid off my losses from the water business, paid off my house and cars and afforded me more free time with my family than I ever thought possible. Yup, there are scams out there, but mainstream MLM isn't one of them. Real estate, not THERE is a scam :)

  333. Jaymes M. Thirbon says:

    I meant to say, Real estate, NOW there is a scam :)

  334. Lazy Man says:

    Keep in mind that no one said that MLM organizations are a scam. I even went out of my way to say why Mary Kay, Tupperware, etc. are different. Sadly, it was some 250 comments ago (see comment 22 or 88).

    Those don't hit the FTC's guidelines referenced in comment 329 as MonaVie does.

  335. Disturbed Chef says:

    Ok I am a 21 year old cook/chef with my AOS in Culinary arts including much education in nutrition and obviously food. this being said I am only 21 younger than most of you here I am sure so you may look at me as young and not as smart. However I would like to put in my two cents.

    I have only recently heard about Mona Vie and am just now researching it before I get involved. First of all the negative. it is defiantly expensive, even at wholesale at $32 I believe which seems like a lot, but Ill get back to that. Some facts seem very shady at best such as scientifically proven or not, and the whole "pyramid" thing, however from talking to my friends who are doing it, it doesn't seem to bad at all you do make commissions from people below you but you also want to sell and keep everyone motivated.

    The positive, no matter what you say you can not argue the fact that it is good all natural whole fruit....period. That is good for you....$40 a bottle good? not really. However, the acai berry its self IS clinically proven to be extremely good for you and jam packed full of antioxidants which we know are good for us. the whole how much can be absorbed and does it deliver more than such and such thing I dont know.

    This is a website I found that has a lot of information about Acai its self.
    [Editor's Note: Website sells Acai. Keeping with policy it has been deleted.]

    It says in that that for the required orac is it? that acai pill gives it to you in 1gram an earlier post with the letter from MV said daily it gives you 2 grams of acai.

    So we know acai is fantastic for you. we know you get plenty of acai from MV. On top of that it also has in it 18 other extremely good fruits. That can only add to the health benefits! Now then if you exercise eat right and are in great health why would you think this would improve how you feel? you cant really feel any better. the amazing thing is for people who dont feel great they arent ettin right because they cant. I know at least 2 people personally who have stopped taking pain medication because they are drinking this daily . I dont know how much their meds cost but Im sure MV cant cost much more if it even costs as much. personally I am going to sign up so I will be gettign the reduced cost and buy a bottle and drink it if I feel better (I am on my feet all day and have dislocated my knee 8 times. I have week joints and dont sleep well.) then I will feel confidant enough to want to sel lit to help others I will buy a bottle for all of my grandparents first thing. If it doesnt work I probably wont do anything with it . So I guess its just up to you if you think its worth it and could do something with it Im going to try who knows maybe Ill become a millionaire haha.

  336. Disturbed Chef says:

    I forgot the reason I mentioned my school background. our food supply is shot to hell everyone. unless you have someplace you can buy certified organic fruits your not getting them. and if you can they are more expensive than $5 a day to get your full servings. If this is fully legit you are getting more than enough fruits with all the nutrients fully intact. your much better of than drinking any of the other "health" or "energy" drinks full of HFCS (high fructose corn syrup) or as I call it the devils candy. Or diet drinks full of Aspartame. this to me seems like one of the best new products Ive heard about in a long time.

  337. Lazy Man says:

    Disturbed Chef:
    Please read the comments to follow the way the conversation has gone. No one doubts that fruit is good for you. You know what else is good for you... plain old cheap fruit. Probably better for you than processed and preservative-full bottled juice. MonaVie is proven to be no better than our non-organic fruit. [Editor's note: It was at night when I posted this, I meant "MonaVie is not proven to be better than our non-organic fruit.] You'll want to follow the previous discussion for why grapes or dark chocolate are better for you than acai (at least if you care about ORAC values).

    Also if you plan to sell MonaVie, you should not mention any medical things. It may have been something else unrelated. Also since MonaVie is not a medicine and has no evidence of being able to cure anything, you are setting yourself up for a nasty lawsuit (and/or possibly breaking your distribution agreement with MonaVie.)

  338. Candace says:

    How expensive and how difficult is it for a regular consumer to get a product "tested and analyzed"? Just curious if anyone knows how to go about that.

    I read on some other websites last week about a regular consumer, not a distributor having MonaVie's juice analyzed by a lab. I will not post the link until I can review that info again. As it was an "average joe" I don't know how reliable the info is, but the poster was saying that MonaVie's juice was something like 47% sugar. I'll have to revisit that site to check more into that info, but it made me wonder how a person such as myself could get a product analyzed....where to begin and how expensive would that be? Does anyone know?

  339. Lazy Man says:

    I wouldn't be surprised if MonaVie is 47% sugar. Fruit itself is made up of various sugars if I remember my high school chemistry ;-).

    It would concern me if MonaVie was made up of protein or alcohols. That would have been unexpected.

  340. lattimore says:

    i need to see if barry can rangle up a mass spectrometer

  341. lattimore says:

    ms, fibromyalgia, pains, sleeplessness, autism

    mv must be real good. I figure a cure for just one of those would make you super rich. Probably not rich like when the "mv opportunity" will no doubt make you.

    disturbed chef.

    how much cash are your friends raking in? are they the ones who are giving you this opportunity?

  342. Disturbed Chef says:

    Candance, I also would not be in the least surprised if monavie was atleast 47% sugar. Of course it is it is an all natural fruit juice....why do you think fruit in general is so sweet? It is jam packed full of sugars....sucrose to be exact. These natural fruit sugars are in no way bad for you.

    Lazyman fruits are just as good for you yes if you can get organic fruits, which are expensive in comparison. The average fruits you will buy at the super market are so genetically altered, sprayed, nutrient free and ruined that they might as well practically be water. I now this from plenty of research from school I dont have the research or any websites right handy but I know it to be true. You get your full servings of fruits in this drink which are whole fruits with all nutrients intact. yes it is preserved but that is only so it will not spoil, that in no way takes away from how healthy it is. as for chocolate and what have you perhaps they are just as good as far as orac is concerned but this juice is jam packed with 18 other juices. these fruits do more than just pack a lot of antioxidants, they also have countless other health benefits which are proven to be true.

    As far as the medical is concerned there is no documented proof that it helps with anything this is true. I never said their was. however the nutrients you get from this juice are just plain and simple obviously going to improve your health if you arent already getting them. do you know how many people get the recommended servings of fruits a day? less than 17% so getting these nutrients will improve your health it may not be noticable right away or maybe it will be life altering that depends on your body what nutrients your getting and what you need. however since less than 17% are getting these nutrients chances are good once they start getting them it will help with existing aches pains and minor health problems. I in no way shape or form agree with the people saying this will help or cure any disease until that is proven and documented that is false advertisement.

  343. Disturbed Chef says:

    lattimore as I said in my first post I have only known about MV for about 3 days now and am just now really researching it. However my close friend and coworker has been into this for only a week and his first check will be around 85 dollars. Not bad for talking to a few friends for a few days. His friends who got him into it who I have met are making around 1500 a week right now give or take obviously its different every week. according to them the friend who got them into it is a millionaire who is on one of the Mova Vie videos and is a high ranked whatever in the business.

  344. Lazy Man says:

    Disturbed Chef,
    There is no reason to believe that MonaVie is better than the non-organic fruit in the grocery store. You can say that non-organic fruit is sprayed and raised poorly, etc. but the truth is that we don't know that MonaVie fruit is any different. It's very possibly the same exact fruit.

    I've heard the argument that it's flown in from the Amazon. The US gets its bananas from Central America and the Caribbean. The United States has minimal banana production. How is that better than wherever MonaVie fruits come from?

    Importing food from far away places causes damage to our environment (extra oil being needed to transport them) and might even be the cause of the things that MonaVie is supposed to "cure."

    We know that people don't eat enough fruit. It's not an argument for more expensive bottled fruit. It's an argument for eating more fruit.

    If MonaVie is "jam packed with 18 other fruits" there must not be room for acai. If Acai is so great, I'd want it be as close to pure as possible with as few other juices diluting it.

  345. lattimore says:

    any chance of market saturation with all these people becoming rich left and right around you? seems like they might have locked up the market on you.

    ask for proof of these wild earnings. some people might say anything (look up and down this page) to sell something. Remember, if its not Lattimore brand super pills BEWARE!

  346. Vogel says:

    According to my calculations, it's only 13.6% sugar, but that's still bad – much more than the average pure fruit juices and even more than the major brands of soft drinks.

    The MV label says that it has 4 g sugar per fluid oz. To calculate the percentage of sugar by volume of juice, you have to determine the weight of sugar (in grams) per 100 mL of juice. That works out to roughly 13.6%.

    Commercial soft drinks soft (i.e. 7-Up, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Sprite) all contain less than 4 g sugar per ounce (they have 38 g to 41 g per 12 oz can – roughly 3.2 to 3.4 g sugar per fluid oz or 10.8-11.6% sugar).

    Now let's compare that to the Tropicana Pure Premium OJ and grapefruit juice in my fridge. They have 22 g and 20 g sugar respectively per 8 oz serving – that's 2.5-2.75 g/sugar per ounce or 8.5-9.4% sugar. These juice are not only lower in far lower in sugar than Monavie, they also declare that they contain 100% pure juice (not from concentrate, unlike Monavie) and they also cost about 1/40 the price - 3.9 cents per oz for the OJ or grapefruit juice vs. 1.57 per oz for Monavie.

    Expressed another way, Monavie contains 60% more sugar per ounce than my pure grapefruit juice, 45% more than my OJ, and 18% to 25% more sugar than 7-Up, Coke, Pepsi, or Sprite.

  347. Vogel says:

    Clarification...my OJ and grapefruit juices are 3.8 cents per ounce vs. $1.57 per ounce for Monavie.

  348. Ryan says:

    LazyMan,

    Two things. About your quote "MonaVie is proven to be no better than our non-organic fruit." Your quote here is blatant slander. You have no studies confirming what you have said. You saying that is no different than someone saying MonaVie is proven to be better than your standard fruits.

    Let me ask you this. Would you say that each fruit that our planet holds has different nutritional value? Some fruits are high in one vitamin while others are high in different vitamins each one being different. Within the realm of fruits there are extreme differences. Some fruits promote a healthy brain while others the liver, heart, or kidneys. The point here is that in your few servings of fruit every day do you get the nutritional value of 19 different fruits?

    Not only that but MonaVie has been tested and IS a low-glycemic product. This means that even though it has some sugar that your body doesn't spike its insulin levels and is far less likely to be stored as fat as something with a similar amount of sugar that is higher glycemic. Many fruits alone are higher glycemic due to the fructose. MonaVie is low glycemic because the protiens and fats in it slow down the breakdown of the molecules within the juice meaning that the nutritional content (protein, carbs, fats, vitamins and minerals) are slowly released into the bloodstream over time.

    MV has the protein content of an egg (mostly comes from the acai berry) and is filled with essential fatty acids.

    4oz of MV contains the ORAC equivalent of 13 servings of fruit. Now you are going to tell me that it has been "proven" that too much antioxidants is a waste. The thing is that too much of ONE antioxidant is a waste. There are numerous forms of antioxidants and our bodies use them in numerous different ways. Some are more beneficial to the brain while others to our skin and so on. So do you think the fruits you are eating contain the all of the essential kinds of antioxidants to allow your body to never be nutrient depleted? Do you think your chances are better if you are getting a little bit of nutrients from 19 different fruits?

    There have been ZERO studies that have tested MonaVie as a product that have proven that MonaVie is no better than regular organic fruit.

    Also, please evaluate the time you spend shopping for fruit. How much is your time worth? Do you ever waste a fruit because it goes rotten? How much fuel do you use going to pick up your organic fruit? When you buy your fruit and tell others how great it is, do you get credited by the organic fruit producer for a referral? Can you get your fruit for free? I can and did in two weeks. Free. So every day I am getting the nutrional equivalent to 13 fruits with antioxidants from 19 fruits for free! I don't make any crazy health claims. I don't make any crazy financial claims. It's as simple as I know I'm getting all the antioxidants I need and getting them for free. I know you are a logical person and this has to make some sense to you now. I'm all about logic and that is why I've chose MV!

  349. lattimore says:

    vogel

    sure your juices only cost 3.8 cents a serving. but mv comes in a fancy bottle and is imported from somewhere very pretty.

  350. Vogel says:

    My apologies. Of course I didn't mean to imply that 100% fruit juices could trump Lattimore's Awesome Pills. They are clearly in a league of their own and far superior to any other food or nutritional product in the known universe.

  351. lattimore says:

    actually they bond the entire universe, but not everyone has barry to their research so they can know these things

  352. Brian says:

    So seriously, Pampered Chef is a scam, my wife has wasted so much money on that crap and she still can't cook and never even made a dime with it, plus there is no proof that those pots and pans are any better than the ones found at walmart. At least with monavie there is a clinical study that shows that it lowers cholesterol (the AIMBR life science one) - - - I am going to buy a few bottles from my neighbor and let you know if it works.

  353. Soy Bomb says:

    This is like religion, everyone here is trying to sell their own form of it, whether its a juice or pill. And like religion you have closed minded followers that will put large amounts of energy into arguing their point for the sake of saying "you're wrong, I'm right, join this side." We are all vibrational beings and when you focus your attention to things you do not want they will continue to appear in your life. And by the way, when you take a pill your body only absorbs 10-20% of it, the rest you piss away. And as far as the juice goes, it is exactly that, a juice. You guys are some great debaters, keep up the good work.

  354. Vogel says:

    The AIBMR "study" (1) has never been peer-reviewed, published, or even fully written up - it's nothing more than a company memo; (2) never reported anything at all about cholesterol levels.
    http://www.aibmr.com/monavie.pdf

  355. Vogel says:

    Those aspects of religion you speak of are not things that can be measured and quantified, unlike the claims that are being made about Monavie. You are confusing religious/spiritual issues with scientific/legal issues. You don't need faith to determine the amount of antioxidants in a bottle of Monavie - this can be measured and printed on a label. Faith also isn't a way to measure whether Monavie can treat diseases, for that too is something that can be objectively measured. Neither is the issue of illegal claims made about the health benefits of Monavie a faith-based one; it is a very clear and simple application of U.S. law.

    Also, faith is a personal choice, not something that should be foisted on people as it has been on this forum. If we substituted "Catholicism" for "Monavie" in the comments from the distributors on this forum, they would sound more fanatical and extreme than Al Qaeda at its worst. Although I can tolerate a certain degree of proselytizing by religious adherents, because I think that religion has value, I absolutely cannot tolerate proselytizing on behalf of fruit punch. A more graven image to worship, I cannot imagine.

    You seem to be saying that it doesn't matter whether Monavie has any real effects as long as people believe that it works. But it hasn't even been demonstrated that Monavie actually helps anyone with any medical condition - not a stitch of reliable evidence. If it somehow acted as a more effective placebo, then it might have some value (although I seriously question the wisdom of selling placebos at prices that cripple people financially), but it hasn't even been reliably shown to have a placebo effect.

  356. Vogel says:

    Soybomb, those aspects of religion you speak of are not things that can be measured and quantified, unlike the claims that are being made about Monavie. You are confusing religious/spiritual issues with scientific/legal issues. You don't need faith to determine the amount of antioxidants in a bottle of Monavie - this can be measured and printed on a label. Faith also isn't a way to measure whether Monavie can treat diseases, for that too is something that can be objectively measured. Neither is the issue of illegal claims made about the health benefits of Monavie a faith-based one; it is a very clear and simple application of U.S. law.

    Also, faith is a personal choice, not something that should be foisted on people as it has been on this forum. If we substituted "Catholicism" for "Monavie" in the comments from the distributors on this forum, they would sound more fanatical and extreme than Al Qaeda at its worst. Although I can tolerate a certain degree of proselytizing by religious adherents, because I think that religion has value, I absolutely cannot tolerate proselytizing on behalf of fruit punch. A more graven image to worship, I cannot imagine.

    You seem to be saying that it doesn't matter whether Monavie has any real effects as long as people believe that it works. But it hasn't even been demonstrated that Monavie actually helps anyone with any medical condition - not a stitch of reliable evidence. If it somehow acted as a more effective placebo, then it might have some value (although I seriously question the wisdom of selling placebos at prices that cripple people financially), but it hasn't even been reliably shown to have a placebo effect.

  357. Candace says:

    Vogel, as always, very informative and well thought our replies.

    Lattimore, this head cold is kickin' my behind, can you please Fed-Ex me some more of your super pills, I just ran out.

    Now who the heck was that...oh yeah, Disturbed Chef....re-read the first sentence of your post number 345....my reply to you is..."Yes, I can, but that's not my name." Nice try, and you're not alone, people tell me I "CanDance" all the time, but my name is Candace. And I am not a moron, I know fruit is sweet, I know it has healthy sugars. 47% sugar in my fruit juice???? No way! And here you are with your food degree (sorry I don't remember what that's called) and you say "I wouldn't be surprised if MonaVie had that much sugar in it" and you would be ok with that??!!
    I say I don't know where you got your nutrition education from, but perhaps you need a re-cap.

    OK, as I said earlier, I am fighting "cold brain" so I didn't want to post anything yesterday when I was in a pretty good fog.

    I wish all of the people who are seriously looking at MonaVie from a business standpoint would just take the time to research the leadership and the founders of the company known as MonaVie.

    MonaVie is actually owned by a company called "Monarch Health Science". Now, every single link to that company that I can find is broken, or I get the message that the server is down, or the web page has moved. So far, I cannot find a working website for Monarch Health Sciences.

    I DID find this: http://www.npros.com/dir/monarch_health_sciences/
    Which says that Monarch Health Sciences is the parent company for MonaVie, but then I found this: http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_yqq7xj
    Which says Monarch Health Sciences deals in "medical library" and if you read down towards the bottom of the listing, you'll see that they list annual sales at 50K. Don't know if this is the same company or not.

    And another website that gives us more pieces to the puzzle:
    http://www.mlm-thewholetruth.com/monarch.shtml

    Now then, research that a bit further and you'll find that Monarch health sciences is founded by one or more of the same people who founded Morinda Inc., & Tahitian Noni. Noni was introduced by Morinda Inc. and their leading management split to form 2 new companies called Monarch Health Sciences and USANA and they are bringing us Xango, MonaVie and Fruita Vida.

    Now then, Monarch Health Sciences is founded by Dallin Larsen. He was the former senior VP of sales for USANA, From December of 2001 until February of 2003, Mr. Larsen served as Vice President of Sales for Dynamic Essentials, which at the time was a division of NBTY.
    http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Larsen_Randy_415038930.aspx

    NBTY, or Dynamic Essentials (run by MonaVie owner Dallin Larsen) was fined 2 million dollars for making false claims and not abiding by their agreement with the FTC to stop making those false claims about their product.
    http://www.naturalproductsinsider.com/hotnews/5ah17161125.html

    Aside from the fines by the FTC, here is the course of action that had to be taken by NBTY, Dynamic Essentials:
    "Royal Tongan Limu product destroyed. The FDA has announced that NBTY, Inc., of Bohemia, N.Y., has completed voluntary destruction of approximately 90,000 units (about $2.7 million retail) of Royal Tongan Limu, a dietary supplement promoted to treat various diseases like cancer, arthritis, and attention deficit disorder (ADD). The destruction, witnessed by FDA Chicago District personnel, occurred October 13-17 at a landfill in Illinois. The product was distributed by Dynamic Essentials, an NBTY subsidiary located in Lake Mary, Florida. Dynamic Essentials has ceased operation and no longer promotes or sells the products on its Web site. FDA determined the product was being promoted with unsubstantiated claims for treatment and mitigation of various diseases. The firm was initially warned with an FDA "cyber letter" in 2002 informing them that claims on their Web site caused their products to be in violation of the law. The claims included "Limu Moui may make cancer cells pop (self-destruct) and stop cell division" and "Limu Moui lubricates joints to make them more flexible and thereby eliminating pain of arthritis, etc." After further investigation by the FDA, NBTY decided to voluntarily stop operating of Dynamic Essentials, Inc., and destroy the product. [Royal Tongan Limu dietary supplements promoted to treat various diseases destroyed. FDA news release, Nov 10, 2003]

    NBTY sells online through its Puritan's Pride Web site, as well as through pharmacies, wholesalers, supermarkets, and health food stores. In December 2002, it reported operating 544 Vitamin World and Nutrition Warehouse stores in the United States, Puerto Rico, and Guam, and more than 460 Holland & Barrett stores in the United Kingdom. It is also #1 in nutritional mail-order sales. Its gross revenue last year was about $964 million. In 1990, when the company was called Nature's Bounty, U.S. postal officials charged that at least 19 of its products were falsely advertised in its catalog. The products included Cholesto-Flush, Fatbuster Diet Tea, Kidney Flush, Memory Booster, Prostex, and Stress B with 500 mg Vitamin C. The case was settled with a consent agreement under which Nature's Bounty admitted no wrongdoing but agreed to stop making the challenged claims. In 1995, the company signed an FTC consent decree under which it paid $250,000, agreed to stop making claims for 26 products, and pledged not to make unsubstantiated claims for any product in the future."
    And here is that link:
    http://www.ncahf.org/digest03/03-44.html

    If you are seriously thinking that Monarch Health Science, or MonaVie, would be a good business to "get in", do yourself a favor and spend a couple of days researching all of these parent companies or companies that preceded MonaVie with some of the exact same executives running the show. I say if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims in circles like a duck, lays great big eggs like a duck...it must be a great big waddling swimming in circles egg laying quacker.

    This track record is not impressive at all, in fact, it should be enough info to make most intelligent people run.

    Here are a few links for you:
    http://noni.worldwidewarning.net/index.php

    Be brave, don't just read the first page, spend an hour or two following links, writing down info, cross referencing. You'll see that this just turns into a giant circle....it all comes back around to some unscrupulous leaders with their fingers in more than a few pies.

    Xango info:
    http://chetday.com/mangosteen.htm

    Tahitian Noni Juice research (or lack thereof)
    http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art4883.asp

    And then this is chock full of all kinds of info. It will take some reading and some cross referencing, but I have spent about 3 days doing so, and it adds up pretty well. Granted, the argument here will be that it's "just some guy, posting his opinion". However, he cross references, he cites sources, etc., and he's done his homework. I found it to be informative and a confirmation of what the "non-distributors" here are trying to share.
    http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-85015.html

    Particularly interesting to me is the nutritional chart he's made:
    http://www.nsxprime.com/photopost/data/500/nutvalue.jpg

    For those who won't or can't take the time to read his entire site which I would highly recommend you do, here is the legend for his nutritional chart:

    1. Minute Maid 100% squeezed Orange Juice
    2. Coca Cola Classic
    3. Mona Vie
    4. Fruita Vida
    5. Acai Pure

    And finally, I have found a page (that's probably hideously out of date) that lists all of the board members of Monarch Health Sciences. http://cache.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?archive_id=0&page_id=578737442&page_url=%2f%2fwww.gmva.com%2fmonarchmanagementteam.html&page_last_updated=4%2f25%2f2004+8%3a48%3a30+PM&firstName=Randy&lastName=Larsen

    Maybe someone else can have some fun researching those people.
    I've read enough to know that this (MonaVie) is nothing I would touch with a ten foot pole.
    Honestly, people, read and be informed!!

    I apologize if I've referenced the same website more than once or if you find a place where I've repeated myself. This is a lot of info that I've been working on for a while and my head cold is making that a bit more challenging than I'd like. :-)

    Happy reading! :-)

  358. Lazy Man says:

    It's interesting that you mention USANA. I had never heard of them until about two days ago when I was in an e-mail discussion offline with a MV proponent. He said that vitamin was better than all the others. (It was in passing, and I didn't care to pursue that tangent.) It's very interesting to see the relationship there.

  359. Candace says:

    I'm with you, Lazy Man, I'd not heard of many of these companies before. It is interesting how they are all connected in various fashions.

    Another interesting factor is who the "kingpins" or "big names" as far as distributors go in MonaVie. That's a subject for another time, but I would encourage any one who is considering MonaVie as a business endeavor to not only research MonaVie and it's founders and the companies they were with prior to MonaVie, but to research the "big pins" in their line of sponsorship and what their previous affiliations were and the outcomes of those relationships.

    I am finding some very interesting people of dubious repute, some of whom I know personally, coming on board with their own MonaVie distributorships.

    The info I posted in my post just before this one is enough to make me run, the info about who is coming on board is enough info to make me want run AND hide from MonaVie. ;-)

    That was a joke, of sorts, I am not hiding from anyone. But I certainly wouldn't want to be involved financially with any of them.

  360. lattimore says:

    dont worry about the super pills. me and barry automatically charge your credit card and send more super pills every month so you can help spread the good word. Remember and tell your friends how good you feel after taking them. If we all work together we can flood the internets with claims about how good it works. We'lll call it operation Really Important Publications Of False Facts. or operation ripoff for short.

  361. Ryan says:

    LazyMan,
    I know you are into health and you have told me that you are on a vitamin/mineral/antioxidant supplement. You can say all you want about all the MLMs in the world, but many of them have legitimate products. Please if you can find it, buy the book called the Comparative Guide to Nutritional Supplements. It is a complete guide to like about 1500 different vitamin supplements on the market. It grades them all based on 18 different factors. It is a study done by numerous Canadian and American doctors that have no affiliation with any of the products. The products were graded on a 5star scale. 4 supplements received a grade of 5stars. All but one of them could only be bought with a prescription for a pretty penny. The other one was USANAs essentials. The average graded between 1.5 and 2 stars.

    Please before you start into this same conversation about another good company, check this book out. Look up your vitamins and see how they compare. Many didn't have what they said were in them, many were not bioavailable, and many even had high levels of toxins in them.

    Also, why didn't you tell everyone my point on MLMs? Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki would be in one if they had no money to start with. Then you bashed their book "Why We Want You to be Rich." You said they would give the book away if that were the case. Aren't you trying to help people out financially? Then stop charging your for advertisements to help keep other companies products costs down therefore lowering prices.

    You can all look down as much as you want on Network Marketing. You think people are getting ripped off. Really? How many Waltons are in the list of the richest people in the world? How many network marketing company owners? Who has seen too much profit?

  362. Lazy Man says:

    Ryan, I just thought it was interesting that USANA and MonaVie were linked after you mentioned it yesterday. I'm on a trip and don't have the ability to check out the book. I have done no research on USANA, just noting that two independent people brought it up in two days in the discussion with MonaVie - striking coincidence.

    Ryan, I didn't get into all our conversation because it went on for another ten pages.

    Trump and Kiyosaki thoughts:
    - They have millions and millions of dollars, yet they are asking the users of their information to pay for it.
    - I don't have millions of dollars (not even close) and I'm not asking for my readers to pay a penny.
    - Companies would simply advertise elsewhere if it weren't here. They would use up that budget
    - I don't mind paying for content. I've bought plenty of books. However they open themselves to the argument that if they really wanted to stand behind the "Why We Want You to be Rich" theme, they'd post the book for free on the Internet. Or perhaps make it advertising supported like this website.

    It's funny you ask "How many Waltons are in the list of the richest people in the world?" It wasn't too long ago in this thread that other people were arguing that MLM was the most efficient business model, yet we only found Mary Kay in the Fortune 500.

    Back then the a thought was that there are more Waltons is that they've found a way to do a more efficient business.

    I don't think network marketing rips people off. I mentioned many products in this thread that seem to quality. One of the differences is that they can be objectively shown to work. Tupperware, Pampered Chef, Mary Kay, all can be clearly observed working. Sellers may be biased, but you can see for itself that it does what it's supposed to.

    You don't need testimonials. You aren't going to be swayed by some medical claim. This is where MonaVie has issues. Sellers may be biased, but you have to believe that it works (like Damian said way back).

  363. Vogel says:

    Great posts today Candace. You are going deep in your research. I noticed the same grey area about where Monarch Health Sciences fits into the big picture.

    Here is what I found on Monarch. Dallin Larsen, the founder, president, and CEO of Monavie LLC, is/was also the head of Monarch Health Sciences (based in Orem Utah), which holds the rights to the Monavie product. Dr. Ralph Carson, the alleged developer of Monavie, is the Chief Science Officer of Monavie LLC and Monarch Health Sciences. He's a hack with an undistinguished resume and has made various claims implying that about Monavie can treat diseases.
    http://www.pilatesacademy.com.au/Dr.%20Ralph%20Carson%20interview%20on%20CBS%20radio%20on%20MonaVie.pdf
    http://www.encognitive.com/files/Promoting%20Wellness%20with%20Phytonutrients.pdf
    http://iammonavie.com/Documents/page_science_nutrition.html
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7167648952538700008

    The executive staff of Monavie LLC and Monarch Health Sciences are identical. It's unclear whether Monarch was disbanded to found Monavie LLC, or whether Monarch is still in existence.

    Monarch was the subject of this lawsuit - Corkin et al. (U.S. District Court, District of Utah; Case #2:2006cv00440; Date Filed 06/01/2006; Monarch Health Sciences v Corkin et al.)
    https://ecf.utd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2006cv0440-156

    Dallin Larsen's position with USANA (based out of Salt Lake City) was VP of sales. USANA was notorious for (a) being the subject of an SEC investigation and (b) being involved in a scandal over its executives faking their academic credentials
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usana#Legal_allegations
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usana#R.C3.A9sum.C3.A9_controversy

    Interesting thing about the resume controversy is that the head of AIBMR (Alexander Schauss), which is the company that performed one of the published studies on acai and the unpublished incomplete study on Monavie, was also nailed for faking his credentials. He falsely claimed to have his PhD when he was still a student working towards the degree. The institution where he ultimately got his degree (California Coast University) wasn't even accredited.
    http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-9205625_ITM

    Incidentally, Schauss made the news again a few years later in this unflattering story.
    http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-9262070_ITM

    But the Dynamic Essentials story is the worst of all. This notorious MLM was Larsen's other training ground.
    http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/news/2003/new00976.html
    http://www.fda.gov/FDAC/features/2004/204_illegal.html

    Candace nailed all the details about the FDA fines and destruction of the company's products but the details on the product itself (Royal Tongan Lmu Juice) are staggering as well, because it was almost identical to Monavie right down to the fancy wine bottle, $40 price, 2-4 oz per day recommended dose, and MLM distribution system. It too contained a wonder ingredient (Limu) from an exotic foreign place (the tiny Pacific island of Tonga) and was marketed with a variety of illegal and misleading claims.

    I don't see how anyone would not immediately recognize Monavie as a scam given this ignominious pedigree. Does Dallin Larsen have to rob some one at gunpoint before it could be admitted that he is ripping people off?

  364. Ryan says:

    LazyMan,
    You said "However they (Trump and Kiyosaki)open themselves to the argument that if they really wanted to stand behind the "Why We Want You to be Rich" theme, they'd post the book for free on the Internet."

    Last time I checked, getting something for free didn't help make me get rich. It's called value. If you find an investment of good value it is worth the money. And, the $10 it costs to buy a used book isn't exactly going to keep someone from being rich.

    Now we are talking about mindsets again. Is $10 that much to either one of these mega millionaires? Nope. It wasn't that much to them when they were earning their wealth. This is called the mindset of abundance. Keeping thinking $10 is a lot and when you make that much you will think that is a lot and feel satisfied and won't need any more.

    The problem on here is that 5 or 6 people are arguing that the product isn't PROVEN to do anything. Well if everything needs to be proven before we do/buy anything than we would never have progress. Did you know how your website here would work out? Nope, you got the info you could and started it up. It's okay if you don't see the value in MonaVie. Just don't blame others when you/your wife purchased something and you didn't get anything out of it. Did these other people write your check for the product? Do you think dozens of years of degeneration can be naturally (without surgery) fixed over one month? Get real.

    Remember our conversation about the tree? Well, your comments are proof that the tree isn't a problem. USANAs compensation plan is quite similar to MonaVie's. Not only that but they have way more products than MonaVie does. They started over 15 years ago and are in numerous countries other than America. They are thousands upon thousands of distributors. All of this and you haven't heard of it yet. So, in 15 years how many new people came into Americas market as adults or immigrants? How many other people didn't hear about it? Quite a few if you've never even heard of it. Thanks to people like the few on here that, at this moment in time, aren't open to MonaVie, the tree will never run out.

    I've heard that argument so many times. The funny thing is that not one MLM has run out of tree to use. At a MonaVie Tasting tonight, where it was clearly stated that MonaVie makes no medical claims, 20% of the people had never heard of AmWay. 20% of America is 50 million people. Of the other 250 million how many have been introduced to or given a presentation on AmWay? Maybe 20%. So that leaves us with 200 million Americans that have never truly been shown the value/opportunity if AmWay.

    A lot of people. MonaVie is fresh and new. It will be big. I will be getting my fruit servings and I will be making money from home!

    I can get better products than pampered Chef and for less money. Same with most of those products you stated. Why are they better? Why should I pay more for plastic? How exciting is selling tupperware? Seriously...this is your idea of a good Network Marketing company. A good network marketing company sells consumable items meaning that people will need to keep purchasing, meaning more revenue, meaning better pay, meaning more of everyone. Try THE JUICE for six months, but preferrably a year with an unbiased mind toward how you feel. You could purchase a 12 case bulk order of MonaVie Active for $995 plus shipping ($23/bottle). One case a month makes the order a years supply. I bet you spend close to that much on your fruit if you are getting those 2-4 servings but this would be giving you 13 per day. Anyways, do that. At one year come back and say if you have felt any affects one way or the other. This would be an unbiased testimonial. Your own hands on experience and it wouldn't really even cost more than what you are paying for fruit right now. Not only that but its easier to consume and will leave you with more calories to use on other things throughout the day.

    Come one. Do it. I'm sure you have spent $995 on less valuable things.

    And just for the record my network now has 12 people and not one person signed up because of a "medical claim."

    The problem with all of you nay sayers is that you or someone you know actually believed that fruit juice would cure your ailments in a month. Talk about something too good to be true. If you believed such a thing your credibility on here just went out the window.

    I'm just a punk 25 year old and I know better than that. Not only that but if it was your friends that told you to buy it or drink it and it's so bad, than you have really bad friends. Remember we are the average of our friends so think twice before knocking them. And if that's not enough, you picked them as friends. Apparently you are lacking in judgement.

    Does anybody on here take responsibility for their own actions? If I bought something and it was a "hoax" to me, whos fault is it? The salesman? The manufacturer/bottler? God? My other friends for not stopping me? My parents for not teaching me? My schools for not teaching me? The government for allowing such a scam? Some CEO sitting in the Bahamas? NOPE. It's my own damn fault. I wrote the check. I believed the BS.

    And if you think that I don't know the more I post on here the higher Google rating it gets, you are dead wrong. I want my distributors to come on here to show why we don't represent MonaVie by using medical claims. We state the facts and let people decide from there.

    Don't knock a company cause there are a few bad eggs in it. What company doesn't have them?

    And about the previous argument about shipping acai berries to America. Last time I checked, freeze dried, dehydrated powder is extremely light. And, I'm sure harvesting them by hand out of the Amazon pollutants than our own farms here at home. Irrigation? Last time I checked many areas of America are a little short on fresh water. How about the energy it takes to pump that water. Oh, I forgot that all the fruit you buy is only from your home town. It is picked from a naturally growing garden, by hand. It is then carried to the market where you walk to buy. None of your fruit could possibly be from some other state let alone some other country. I mean that would take tanker ships to get that kind of volume here. Not only that but many places that produce that kind of fruit are third world. When you buy that fruit does the company you buy it from donate money back to that country to help keep things natural and protect the lands the fruit grows from. If you don't know you should check.

  365. Vogel says:

    I found an archived copy of Monarch's early website

    http://web.archive.org/web/20031029224554/www.monarchhealthsciences.com/2/index.cfm?Page=mngteam

    Interesting that their specialty was weight management. They must have accidentally stumbled on the miracle tonic soemwhere along the way.

    One thing I didn't know was that the person in charge of marketing and brand identity for Monarch (and no doubt Monavie later on) was Dalin Larsen's older brother Randy.

  366. Lazy Man says:

    Ryan, perhaps you should continue reading this site and some of the sites I include in my blogroll. All of them are free and all of them will help you become rich.

    A one-time $10 expense might not keep someone from getting rich. However, there are hundreds and thousands of books, so you'd have to buy all of them.

    That $10 isn't much, but multiply it by a million copies and it's enough. If the $10 doesn't matter to them, then again they should post it for free.

    "Well if everything needs to be proven before we do/buy anything than we would never have progress.... Do you think dozens of years of degeneration can be naturally (without surgery) fixed over one month?" And if we had to try every product that wasn't proven for multiple months or years, we'd be bankrupt. Why should one choose MonaVie over Hoodia, shark cartilage, or a million other things.

    "I can get better products than pampered Chef and for less money."

    This is exactly the point we are making with MonaVie. Unprocessed, unpreserved fruit is a better product for less money.

    "I bet you spend close to that much on your fruit if you are getting those 2-4 servings but this would be giving you 13 per day."

    Not the 13 fruit per day argument again. Where is this proof? I couldn't even find this claim on the MonaVie website.

    "The problem with all of you nay sayers is that you or someone you know actually believed that fruit juice would cure your ailments in a month. If you believed such a thing your credibility on here just went out the window."

    Not true for me. I simply don't like seeing people taken advantage of with medical claims or fruit equivalency claims. Your group might not do it... congrats. Other groups do and MonaVie doesn't clamp down on them or allow a system for reporting them.

    "Not only that but if it was your friends that told you to buy it or drink it and it's so bad, than you have really bad friends."

    It was an acquaintance from a group that brings people together with a completely separate common interest. A friend is a large stretch.

    "I wrote the check. I believed the BS."
    I'm trying to stop you from making the mistake. I could have saved you a $1000 if you read this first.

    I think at this point the Google rating goes down with more posts. I believe it's simply getting too long. I might need to look to paginate comments soon.

    "Don't knock a company cause there are a few bad eggs in it. What company doesn't have them?" By my count, it's a vast majority. Seems like 90% in my experience here. I'm sure MonaVie distributors will now come out of the woodwork and say that they don't do it.

    You might understand why I might be skeptical of freeze-dried, dehydrated powder, with added preservatives. Perhaps you can see how I would favor unprocessed fruit?

    By the way, I live in California where there are abundant farmer markets. So it really isn't that hard to get cheap, locally grown fruit if you want to.

  367. Candace says:

    Ryan,
    I know you're frustrated with us. I can feel it and hear it in your words. Understand that we are just the tip of the iceberg. If you can't handle this discussion without resorting to telling us that you've figured out our "problem", although you seem to think we have more than one, and putting us into a convenient little box of "naysayers", and trying to distract the conversation by bringing other issues into the conversation,...what in the world are you going to do when this conversation happens in person with someone you love or respect? Because you need to understand that if this is the line of "business" you want to be in, you are going to hear things like what we are saying and much much worse, louder, harsher, meaner, less intelligent, but it will be in person and right in your face. If you can't hold it together in an online discussion, what will happen when it's in person, in front of your downline, maybe it's someone important to them...and you lose your cool because you have no facts to stand on and then, you blow out your downline.

    I'm not joking.

    You have managed to dance all around the topic, have managed to choose other things to get annoyed or pontificate about, but the facts still remain:

    There is absolutely no proof of the amount of fruit, let alone Acai berry in the MonaVie juice. Their concept is simple..."we will tell you what's in this drink, and then you will believe us, and sell it to everyone you know."

    So, then, if they cannot disclose what's in the drink, the distributors are encouraged to tell us *what the drink can do for us*, and again, we are expected to believe. To the tune of AT LEAST 130.00 a month. Family of four, at the wholesale cost of $20.00 per bottle, minimum of $600.00 a month.

    MonaVie wants us to forget the part about personal medical testimonials being illegal.

    MonaVie wants us to forget the part about the last company Dallin Larsen ran being fined *2 million dollars* for doing this exact same thing, making unsubstantiated medical claims.

    No one is saying that the acai berry and even juices can't help us feel better and be healthier. Of course the correct diet will make us feel better and be healthier. There's just absolutely zero proof that MonaVie has any more nutritional value than an organic apple purchased at my local farmer's market, which in turn, supports local American farmers.

    When MonaVie or it's distributors make medical claims, and then charge the ridiculous price of $20.00 to $40.00 per bottle, they are preying on people who are searching for "that miracle cure", and it is unsubstantiated and illegal.

    Ryan, I want you to take a look at your own words: "Not only that but if it was your friends that told you to buy it or drink it and it's so bad, than you have really bad friends. Remember we are the average of our friends so think twice before knocking them. And if that's not enough, you picked them as friends. Apparently you are lacking in judgement."

    You need to remember and keep this very close to you from now on....this is a double edged sword. Your friends will soon be saying this about you. And you will soon be saying this about the "negative" people that your downline is trying to get "in", and that will include their friends and families, and so on and so forth. This mind bending garbage that is spewed over and over in many of these types of businesses will cost you your friends, your family, and your own reputation when MonaVie is either shut down, or they change the pay plan, or your upline decides to jump ship to another MLM and take your downline with them, etc, etc, etc. I know you don't want to read that, and I know you don't think that will ever happen. In 5 years, you can come back and tell us how successful you are with MonaVie or how many friends and family you alienated, either way, we'd like to know how this turns out for you.

    And just for the record...your youth is showing. It is hard to imagine how you could have chosen a worse MLM to compare MonaVie to.
    SCAM-Way is about to self destruct. It might take years, but it is experiencing internal combustion right now. Again, take the time to research it, do your homework, you'll see that it is all about lawyers and court dates and injunctions and appeals and the big S P I N for SCAM-Way right now.

    If this is the line of business you want to be in, you are going to need to be able to express your beliefs to people without getting so annoyed and without diverting, changing the subject, and not answering the questions. Truly. You are going to need a much thicker skin, especially when the product you've chosen to represent has nothing factual to give you to back up your beliefs to your prospects. All you have is what the company known as MonaVie LLC has printed for you and told you.

    You will also need to learn that just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't make them "naysayers", doesn't make them all "believe that the product would work a miracle in one month". Just because someone else is looking further into this "business" much closer than you did, does NOT give you the right to lump them all into one group of losers. I fact, you would be wise to hold your tongue and consider what is being said. And then if you continue in this "business" of MonaVie, just remember that you had the opportunity to hear from unbiased regular people who are discussing all aspects that we can see of this "business" and juice. What you are hearing from your upline or sponsors or MonaVie themselves is completely biased, as *they are making money off of YOU right this very minute*.

    And just so you know, yes, absolutely, my fruits and vegetables, when in season, are either picked from my own garden, or purchased at my local farmer's market that I can walk to any day of the week. These are also organic and not genetically modified fruits and vegetables. Again, just another example of how when you're trying to cover your frustration with sarcasm, it could come back to bite you. You must be prepared for this in your "business."

    And I also want to address this comment written by you:
    "Does anybody on here take responsibility for their own actions? If I bought something and it was a "hoax" to me, whos fault is it? The salesman? The manufacturer/bottler? God? My other friends for not stopping me? My parents for not teaching me? My schools for not teaching me? The government for allowing such a scam? Some CEO sitting in the Bahamas? NOPE. It's my own damn fault. I wrote the check. I believed the BS."
    I believe that we all take responsibility for our own actions. That's why we are weighing this particular request of yours expecting us to "just believe" and spend "$995.00" to "try the product for 6 months" very very carefully. That's why we are presenting you with the problems with your own arguments. I honestly hope that your words don't turn out to be prophetic for you, but keep in mind that they very well may.

    And, BTW, USANA has plenty of court/legal activity going right now, also.

    Vogel, that's about the same info I came up with yesterday, again an archive page. I find it interesting, too, these companies usually look for some big name in the area they are trying to market to, i.e., health and fitness, so let's get some Olympic athletes to come on board enough to say they use the product or have written something about it, etc, so we can list them as board members or use their names in some way. I really can't find much of anything that confirms that Peter Vidmar is involved with MonaVie. I see there are a couple other Olympic athletes mentioned on one of the pages I found, and I couldn't find anything to confirm that they were truly involved with MonaVie, either.

  368. Ryan says:

    Candace,
    I agree that legitimate "unbiased" conversation is essential when it comes to discussing something such as MonaVie. I have tried that. I have presented facts. All the facts I produce are judged by LazyMan to be lesser than the facts he produces.

    I will not have the problems with my business that you outlined. From the start I always say that MonaVie makes no medical claims. I also clearly state that if my new distributors want to make money it is going to take a lot of work, and to start will only produce pennies on the dollar. I ask them if they are interested in joining me in both using the product and the business. No pressure. Just a question. Many say no and I'm still just as much their friend. I repeat this again, not one person in my downline has been given false information.

    I guess I don't understand how I have danced around the topic? If you could explain that to me I would like to know. I feel I have been straightforward.

    Candace, when was the last time you bought a vehicle or anything that you had to buy from a salesman/woman? Has any information ever been exaggerated to persuade you to buy? If not, how about anybody you know? You are right. When people are selling and desperate, they will make false claims or exaggerate the truth. If anything, after being involved in such a big fine, it should be safer to go into something with Dallin Larsen as I'm sure many watchful eyes are upon him.

    If you ran a company as big as MonaVie would you be able to control or even know of everything that has been told to your customers?

    I've never heard of MonaVie as being a "miracle cure." There is no such thing.

    My words might be showing a little bit of my emotion, but there is nothing wrong with that. I have emotion towards what I do. I'm not cursing anyone out. I'm simply getting your attention.

    I will answer any question anybody wants. I haven't been asked any yet however.

    Oh, you are right that the people who sponsored us are making money off of us at this very moment. What is wrong with that? Do you have a job? Are the owners/managers making money off of your time? Can you make more money than them in your business? Most likely not. Funny thing is that we are already making more money than our sponsor.

    And about the "Scam-Way" thing as you called it, I never once endorsed AmWay. You seem to know so much about my words, but maybe you should read them more carefully before making false assumptions. LazyMan and I had an email conversation and he made the point in an MLM the people we can sell to will run out. I was simply making the point that if a company as big as AmWay or even USANA haven't been heard of by many after this many years, than running out of tree is impossible. I never endorsed AmWays products.

    About USANA. Check your facts. Because of Barry Minkow making nearly the same accusations against USANA as you have made against MonaVie, the SEC performed an in-depth investigation into USANA and its business practices. What you failed to read is that they completed their investigation and found nothing wrong with USANA. Almost all legal action against USANA has been resolved in favor of USANA.

    I didn't ask you to pay for anything. I was asking LazyMan to buy a years worth of product and try it. Invest $995 in his fruit for one year from MonaVie. And then at the end of the year give his experience. That would be a legitimate way of saying/proving if MonaVie is worth it or not.

    And I just did some research on Sodium Benzoate that many people on here have spoken out against. If you feel that way, you better drop that apple. It's naturally occurring in many of the fruits we eat.

  369. Michelle says:

    For those of you who think that monavie (not monaview dumba**) is a scam, it is not our fault that you don't want to be successful. So when all of us who are Independant Distributors are no longer working crappy jobs and making it big with this business, you will be the ones shining our brand new Mercedes SL 550's that we just got FOR FREE. Peace out!

  370. lattimore says:

    hahahahaha. that new sl 550 wont be worth squat after you're eaten by a bear. I bet ryan's 12 customers are picking out the color of his mercedes right now. he wont be able to enjoy it after paying all the medical bills he will get if he is mauled by a bear.

    thats why everyone here needs some super pills. my man barry just did a definitive study on super pills. the report follows:

    super pills rock

    super pills are awesome

    super pills are way better than monavie,usana, and regular fruit combined

    super pills may make you air independent

    super pills may prevent bear attack

    there you go. absolute evidence my pills are better than anything you have ever seen. you antipillites may try to discredit barry, but as i've said he is the smartest guy i know. if you dont believe me then drop a grand or so my way and i'll send you a year's supply of my super pills.

  371. Candace says:

    Sorry, Ryan, but when you typed this: "So that leaves us with 200 million Americans that have never truly been shown the value/opportunity if AmWay" in a conversation about Monavie, it appears that you are using Amway as your bench marker. I can see how you were trying to use that, but you can also see how it appears to someone who does not know the point you were trying to make.

    Your question: "I guess I don't understand how I have danced around the topic? If you could explain that to me I would like to know. I feel I have been straightforward."

    Here are the facts we need answered:

    1. what is the actual Acai berry content in one bottle of Monavie?

    2. Why is the sugar content so high?

    3. If it is loaded with antioxidants, enough so that a 2oz serving twice a day will get you your entire fill of all your RDA for fruits and antioxidants, why is the label content showing only 8% vitamin c and 8% of Iron and absolutely no other vitamins or minerals? Would it not stand to reason that it should also contain at the very least vitamin A, & Vitamin E? These are antioxidants.

    4. Why are there no independent clinical studies put out by anyone NOT on MonaVie's payroll?

    5. Why are so many of the founders/board members/doctors involved with MLMs in the past that have been fined or shut down by the FTC, and why are some of these people not honest about their credentials.

    6. Where is the proof that MonaVie has the ingredients you or MonaVie say it has in it, where is your proof that the consumer will be getting a good value for their money? Where is your proof that the Acai in MonaVie is better, higher amount, better processed than any other Acai juice or product on the market right now?
    Again, is this info only coming from MonaVie, or can these claims be substantiated by any other studies, analysis, lab report, etc ***done by someone other than MonaVie***.?

    7. A new one. You said "MV has the protein content of an egg (mostly comes from the acai berry) and is filled with essential fatty acids." If so, then why is there a big fat zero on the label where the protein content is listed?? Here is a link to a picture of the label for you (Please note that this is off of an Amway/Quixtar blog where they are debating the value of MonaVie as well. Perhaps all these MLMs will just fight amongst themselves and do each other in. Interesting that I could NOT find a picture of the label or a list of ingredients from the label anywhere else that I looked. You'd think MonaVie would be over zealous about getting that label out there if all those great ingredients were really in the product.): http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/images/monavie_nutrition.jpg

    Those are the questions, Ryan, that you've not been able to answer. Answers would be "yes", "no", not "what proof do you have that it doesn't work?"

    The burden of proof lies with MonaVie, and now with you as you are now a full fledged representative of this product.

    About USANA...I HAVE checked my facts. I did NOT mention Mr. Minkow, but since you did...I can think of no one better to undercover a scam than someone who has been incarcerated/charged/convicted of said crime. When I used to work for other people for a living, I was in securities. You can darn well believe that the people we had come in and do safety training and scam training and security training were ex-cons, ex-FBI, and current FBI. Who did the FBI rep recommend to us? Several Ex-Cons that they worked with to undercover and expose scams/cons. Think about it. It matters not who the messenger is if the message is accurate.

    I am pressed for time and cannot search further than these right now:

    Court order dismissing USANA's reactive lawsuit against Barry Minkow:
    http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/order.pdf

    That court order explained a bit more in depth:
    http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/2008/03/04/usana-health-sciences-loses-big-in-court/

    Why then, did the court rule that USANA must pay Mr. Minkow's legal fees?
    http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/2008/05/07/usana-health-sciences-ordered-to-pay-barry-minkows-legal-fees/

    Lest you think I am being biased about where I get my information, here's the Wikipedia for you:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USANA_Health_Sciences

    And more info from wikipedia:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USANA_Health_Sciences#Legal_allegations

    OK, now, I have to get going, but let me try to quickly answer your personal questions.
    You said "Oh, you are right that the people who sponsored us are making money off of us at this very moment. What is wrong with that? Do you have a job? Are the owners/managers making money off of your time? Can you make more money than them in your business? Most likely not. Funny thing is that we are already making more money than our sponsor."

    What is wrong with that is this: If they are making money off of you, then it is in their best interests, not YOURS, that they tell you information that will keep you buying and recruiting. The only information you have backing anything your upline tells you is all information put out by MonaVie, paid for by MonaVie, endorsing MonaVie.

    No, I do not have a job. I have my own business. And I am my kids' Mom.
    I run my own successful business from home.
    It is a service based business, I am a photographer. Thank you for asking, but no thanks for assuming I work for someone else, thereby furthering "their" dream and income instead of my own. Even so, there is absolutely not one thing wrong with working for an employer. This is usually one of the first steps in trying to control distributors' thoughts, is to tell them how horrid it is to work for someone else, to further someone else's dream. MLM recruiting 101.

    And you asked: "Candace, when was the last time you bought a vehicle or anything that you had to buy from a salesman/woman? Has any information ever been exaggerated to persuade you to buy?" OK, Ryan, time for a little humor here...are you *seriously* going to ask ME a question like this? Have you not learned from simply reading this blog and these posts that I will research the heck outta something before I purchase or endorse it?? Honestly? :-)

    Of course people will say things, make claims exaggerate things, but I *hope* that I am able to use ALL the information that I gather to make an informed, and what I believe to be accurate, purchasing decision.

    You car analogy helps you none. Husband in the car biz for the past 25 years. That dog won't hunt for me. Maybe for someone else.

    And the last thing you said that I will take the time to address is this: "If anything, after being involved in such a big fine, it should be safer to go into something with Dallin Larsen as I'm sure many watchful eyes are upon him."

    That's sorta like saying "We saw the great white shark in the bay yesterday. He only ate about 50% of the swimmers. They chased him away with boats. Today he's back in the bay but he hasn't eaten any more swimmers. Since they chased him away before we should be really safe swimming in the bay now."

    And I gotta go. Will check in later. :-)

  372. lattimore says:

    Candace

    you may now walk among the ursine population of this world with no fear, you have just won a years supply of super pills

  373. Vogel says:

    Wow Candace you are on fire lately. These are some of the best most cogent (and yet compassionate) statements I have seen yet; this is not doubt attributable to your newly acquired awesomeness from taking Lattimore's awesome pills. This is indisputable proof of the power of Awesome.

  374. Vogel says:

    I spent some time this weekend philosophizing with friends about Monavie's business practices. And we concluded that many of the company's distributors are essentially panhandling and cashing in the value of personal relationships with friends and family. Most of the distributors we had encountered were not financially well off individuals; quite the opposite - they were all trying desperately to find additional income and were desperate enough to resort to something as ridiculous as selling $40 a bottle fruit punch on commission.

    A couple of my friends admitted to having bought MLM health products at one time or another – but they said that the main reason they bought them was because they felt sorry for the down and out friend who was trying to sell it to them. They said that, had their friend simply asked for money, they would have given it to them as straight up charity without going through the charade of having to purchase some crappy product that they had no interest in; but it seemed to them that the MLM juice bottle or vitamin supplement gave the begging friend more of a semblance of independence and initiative than if they had simply asked for money. We all agreed that the Monavie people reminded us of the homeless guys in cities like San Francisco who sell those specially produced (but quite awful) local independent newspapers on the street corners – it gives them a degree of respectability that they wouldn't have if they simply stood with a begging cup asking for handouts.

    Then the question came up... if that friend asked them to buy another MLM product (or something else they didn't really want) a few months later, would they buy it or say no? We all said that we might do it once or twice at the most, but then that would be it... no more handouts, and we would feel uncomfortable when we saw them because we would be expecting to get hit up for another "donation".

    What we ultimately realized is that the distributor who milks his friend is cashing in on the capital they have invested in this relationship. Think about it for a minute – every one of your friends is probably good for at least one or two favors if you were in hard situation, and many would probably buy at least one unwanted bottle of $40 juice from you. Monavie LLC profits from having its distributors cash in the equivalent of their "relationship 401K", and then they loot the lion's share of the plundered investment and leave the distributor with some crumbs as well as a trail of "spent" relationships. It's not unlike a very bad reverse mortgage but instead of putting up your house as collateral, you put up your credibility with your friends and relatives.

    Another result of this relationship leveraging is that a distributor may have some initial success selling Monavie during the time when their friends are still sympathetic. But soon after, the goodwill evaporates the amount of effort needed to recruit new customers goes up exponentially. That's when most of them simply give up. Monavie LLC makes their money selling the distributorship and promotional materials, while the failed distributor gets saddled with the out-of- pocket expenses and a bunch of alienated former friends.

    Furthermore, when a friend recruits a friend into the "business", it's quite likely that they have overlapping circles of acquaintances. The net result is that the first friend on board has already milked or pitched to many of those acquaintances, so the new recruit can't even cash in the full value of his relationship investments because somebody beat them to it.

  375. Lazy Man says:

    Candace, great question about the protein. I asked Ryan that off-line (even linking the same image), and either he missed the question or I missed the answer. Either it has no protein and we have a clearly false claim, or MonaVie is mislabeling their product. Perhaps I'm missing a third option.

    I'm going to add a question that I want answered to Candace's 7.

    8. Where is the evidence that MonaVie's 4oz serving is equal to 13 fruits? If MonaVie claims this themselves, I want to see that claim. I want to know which fruits it's talking about. Is it a single grape, a slice of watermelon, or a whole watermelon? Is it equal to 13 blueberries, or cups of blueberries? Is it equal 13 actual acai berries or 13 cups of acai berries?

    Much of the economic argument Ryan is making depends on MonaVie substituting for fruit in my diet. From the MonaVie label, I know that 13 apples has more calories than MonaVie's 4oz serving, so it at least is not equal on one metric.

    My fear is that someone took a bunch of fruits averaged their ORAC values together and compared it to MonaVie to find that MonaVie has 13 times that average. I hope that's not the case as we've already shown foods with a lot more ORAC value and I'd hate for people to think they could just substitute dark chocolate for all the fruits in their diets.

    "If you ran a company as big as MonaVie would you be able to control or even know of everything that has been told to your customers?"

    No, but I'd be able to search Google for my company name, look at the top ten results, and see if any claims are in those articles (as they are in this one). In fact, I'd probably be very, VERY aware of what Google's results are for the top ten of my company. I know companies that spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in research of those top ten.

  376. lattimore says:

    anybody else seen this

    http://www.monavie.com/pdf/corporate/income_disclosure_statement.pdf

    i'm still digesting the numbers and disclaimers. but from the looks of it the price of mercedes has dropped lately.

  377. lattimore says:

    i'm not sure but i'm figuring that is gross income also.

  378. lattimore says:

    the 12% who reach the impressive title of star 500 are averaging 6.91 an hour. thats how you show those evil bosses of yours. of course 78% of the people make less than that.

  379. lattimore says:

    i have an opportunity for anyone wanting to make more money than they can average for mv.

    mowing my yard will pay 10 an hour and not require the soliciting of your friends. i'll even throw in a bonus beer if its real hot out.

    barry is working on a paper route and lemonade stand opportunity also. if you get in early we will be able to make a load of cash.

  380. Vogel says:

    ROFL!

  381. Vogel says:

    Those numbers in the Monavie Disclosure PDF are amazing. I ran some quick calculations.

    Of the 35.471 distributors, only 226 (0.6%) made more than $52,760; the average annualized income for all distributors was $4,505.32.

    Only 18 (0.05%) distributors cracked the half-million dollar mark. The vast majority of the company's distributors (90%) earned less than $5,000 annually and made an average hourly wage of $5.10. That's 13% less than the federal minimum hourly wage of $5.85.

    I think that puts to rest the last remaining argument that the Monavie promoters have been clinging to. This is a truly wretched business opportunity for all but a very few select individuals at the top of the pyramid (and I feel safer using the term "pyramid" now after having seen these numbers). For the vast majority, it offers less than the Federal minimum wage. It can no longer be argued that this particular MLM compares favorably with conventional retail business models, or as Lattimore mentioned, even a paper route or lemon-aid stand.

  382. Vogel says:

    Yikes...I mean "lemonade" not "lemon-aid". I misspell when I'm wearing my mathematician's hat.

  383. Ryan says:

    Candace,
    Just a quick not because I don't have time right now to write much.

    About the protien comment. I will admit (and I'm sure I will hear plenty of flack from it) that MonaVie has less than 1g of protien per serving. My mistake was made in my own reading of the acai berry and monavie. The acai berry has the protein makeup of an egg not the monavie juice. When acai is freeze dried it loses its protein content but not its micronutrient content.

    Sorry for the mistake to both you and LazyMan.

  384. lattimore says:

    vogel

    the great thing about the income disclosure is the site i found it on had a mv loonie praising how any entrepeneur could see how awesome the opportunity was!!!

  385. Candace says:

    Lattimore & Vogel (#376 & 377)

    Hallelujah!! Free super pills!! Now I can take the money I was planning to spend on the year's supply and invest it into a new business opportunity. My neighbor's kids have been working really hard to build a new stand for their budding Lemonade business, and I think the extra money will allow me to give them some "Lemon-Aid" for their beverage biz. 8-)
    Thanx!!!!

  386. Candace says:

    Vogel,

    Somehow I missed post #367 of yours. Very comprehensive. I figured you'd start digging deeper into the background also. :-)

    An interesting thing I noticed in the links you provided for Dallin Larsen, he himself can't keep his stories straight. Sometimes he says that we need 2-3 servings of fruit a day, sometimes he says 4-5, etc. He doesn't cite any sources when spewing stats. Another item of interest, I had not gone into it as I didn't want to distract from the main issues here, and that is the juice and proof of it's contents, but I was reading one of the links you provided and Dallin Larsen was going into the special added ingredients in MonaVie, and listed Celadrin.

    There's been some legal haggling between Amway/Quixtar/Alticor and MonaVie/Monarch Health Sciences and some lawsuits filed and some court action going on. I didn't want to muddy the waters with even more weird info, but perhaps it's just as well that people read about the double speak that goes on. Frankly, I'd be happy if A/Q/A and MonaVie spent their time and resources battling each other to the death.
    http://www.mlmblog.net/2008/05/monavie-ceo-dal.html
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20080516/ai_n25448049

    And the deal with the "Royal Tongan Lmu Juice"...what the heck??!! How many times will people willingly let the same man tell them the same lies about a similar "health juice" and give him their hard earned cash? Here he is again with a product spelled a different way, marketed the exact same way, and he's making all the same health claims about this one.

    Distributors...watch the clock, because it is only a matter of time before the FTC catches up with good Ole Dallin again.

    Again...it's a great big waddling swimming in circles egg laying quacker.

  387. Candace says:

    Ryan,
    Thank you for your reply in post #387.

    Believe me, I understand what could be a huge part of your troubles right now. There is a ton of info out there about the Acai berry and it's nutritional properties. When reading anything printed and endorsed by MonaVie, it is *extremely* difficult to discern what is actually in a bottle of MonaVie vs. what is in the Acai berry. I would imagine this is done on purpose. In my own research I would come across things that were very vague and read as if the statistics and numbers were talking about MonaVie juice, only to find that the Acai berry was really what was being referenced. As MonaVie has never stated exactly what percentage of their juice is made up of the Acai berry, we can have absolutely no idea how nutritious the MonaVie juice actually is.

    The information is purposely misleading and vague.

    So it looks like we need to revise our list of questions, and had I more time right now I would do so myself, but I have to get moving.

    I wanted to add one more question that I thought of yesterday afternoon. I need to qualify it first though.

    I had been trying very hard not to go off too deep into the "business" side of MonaVie, as we were mainly just wanting to discuss the actual properties and benefits of the juice. But, it is all tangled up together so, I will add another question for you. I guess this officially makes question #8 as we have to remove the protein question since you've answered that already for us.

    #8. Do you have "support" or "training" materials available to help you build your MonaVie business? If so, how much do they cost, how often are you "expected" to buy...oh, I know, I know, all MLMs are required by the government to NOT require distributors to purchase support materials, however, all MLMs strongly encourage the purchase and use of their support materials.
    Back to the question, how much do they cost? How often are you buying? Where are they being manufactured? ***Who is making the money off of these "tools"***??? If it's your upline, this is a HUGE trouble signal. If it is your upline...at what level will you get to make a profit off the tools too? And how much of a profit? Or they probably haven't addressed that part of the biz with you yet, most MLMs hold onto that one until "your business is bigger".

    Check that one out, too, please. It is extremely important that you do.

  388. Lazy Man says:

    Ryan responded on a recent article of mine.

    As for the support materials, I can attest that there are some. I've seen some in the mymonavie.com sites that people have left in comments.

  389. Candace says:

    Are you kidding me?
    Ryan is that you as KingTut57?

    If so...so much for "I guess I don't understand how I have danced around the topic? If you could explain that to me I would like to know. I feel I have been straightforward."

    And apparently the second promise of answering truthfully is null and void as well? "I will answer any question anybody wants. I haven't been asked any yet however."

    Probably "counseled upline" and was told to leave the conversation alone, avoid the negative.

    Waiting for you to prove otherwise, Ryan.
    Hoping I am wrong. :-)

  390. Candace says:

    Darn it, I meant to include this comment from that post on Lazy Man's article about Credit Karma.

    Anyhow, here it is:KingTut57 said
    "P.S. I'm done with the MonaVie conversation as it would be a never ending discussion (unless MV was taken down or was proven to be a miracle juice)."

  391. Vogel says:

    Distributors are not required, but are highly encouraged, to buy these promotional support materials. Add to that the cost of the training seminars they are "encouraged" to attend as well as the cost of the free Monavie distributors are advised to give away to prospective customers and you can see that new distributors are burdened with a lot of expenses. Then there's also the front loading that new distributors are encouraged to do (bulk upfront purchases to obtain the lowest possible price).

    So subtract these costs (as well as the cost of alienating one's friends and family) from the already pitifully low wages most (90%) of the distributors are earning ($5.15 per hour – 13% below the federal minimum wage). What kind of business opportunity is that? An opportunity to be out-earned by a homeless guy who cashes in discarded pop bottles?

  392. lattimore says:

    he (ryan) conceded that it can make no medical benefit earlier (#372)

    From the start I always say that MonaVie makes no medical claims. I also clearly state that if my new distributors want to make money it is going to take a lot of work, and to start will only produce pennies on the dollar.

    i just want to know when he's gonna make money. the income disclosure statement makes it look like it probably aint happening. if its a good deal, how long do you have to make pennies on the dollar? it looks like thats what most everyone makes.

  393. Candace says:

    Well, looks like we lost Ryan. Bummer. Here I was, hopeful that there was one MonaVie distributor who could have an open minded discussion and actually answer our questions, but I think all the "negative" got to him.

    Lattimore, I had purposely steered clear of linking MonaVie's pay plan as I knew what it was, and I knew it would just send us all off in another direction, because it's so ridiculous. And you and Vogel are both right, you can work your tail off in MLMs and lose your friends, your family, your relationships (and forgive me if I am wrong, but I think those are *THE* most important things in this life), your money, your health, your reputation, and your own self respect.

    I know people who have had to have serious in depth counseling after leaving an MLM, showing signs of post traumatic stress or cult survivor syndrome. But that's not something anyone will believe until they have witnessed it with their own eyes. Certainly not a prospect with all their dreams and aspirations shining so brightly in their eyes...the dream that's been polished and magnified and dangled in front of them like a carrot as only a MLM recruiter can do.

    That all comes back to what you said in your post today, Vogel. Post #378 you are 100% correct. Only thing is...imagine how wonderful you'd feel about yourself if after 5-10 years of chasing that dream and having nothing to show for it, and experiencing the same things you wrote about...you woke up and realized...all of this has happened, all of this time has gone by...and I have nothing to show for it. Then the depression, anger, bitterness, and resentment can, and usually do, kick in. Then you have to recover from that as well. It can be a completely devastating experience on any level you can think of, affecting every aspect of your life.

    I've seen it. It can and does happen.

    As far as the "tools", "support material", "training material", "functions", "rallies", "seminars" "meetings", "meet & greets" "open meetings" and whatever other names I've forgotten they can be called.....

    When I asked Ryan about his support material, it was mostly to get him to stop and think about what he's already been told and what he's been "encouraged" to buy. It is illegal for MLMs to make their money or to profit from the sale of "tools" to their downline. Books, tapes, functions, cds, dvds, etc, all must be voluntarily purchased and not required.

    I will have to research a bit more as I seem to have lost the particular link I am looking for, but if I recall correctly (and I may not have it completely accurate) in regards to the "tool" business and (SC)Amway, the FTC says that there is no "value" for the end purchaser, making the tool business part of an illegal pyramid scheme. The products make it legal, but the tool side of it was where all the money was/is. This was not disclosed to distributors prior to this lawsuit. And, in fact, there are several ongoing lawsuits at this time in regards to this matter. Many have to waste years in the land of paperwork and appeals and then have a court decide whether or not Amway's arbitration agreement holds merit or if the case can actually go to court.

    Imagine, one could build a fairly large business, to the point where one was financially dependent upon that business, only to find out at some point further on that one's entire business was a scam and the money was not coming from sales of product, but from sales of tools. And some of those were bootlegged. Thus the reason I posed the question to Ryan.

    This information is crucial to know. But most likely will not be openly and honestly discussed with any distributor until the distributor is at a point where they feel "there is no turning back".

    This is a very informative website I will link you to. I have downloaded and read his entire book, and it is full of things I already knew and experienced myself as well as many things I didn't know and never want to experience.
    Have fun perusing this site, click everything, read everything. but what is pertinent to this conversation right now, are paragraphs 5, 6, and 7 on the page I am linking you to.
    http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/research.html

  394. Candace says:

    Info on the latest tools lawsuit against Amway and Quixtar and Alticor:
    http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/2007/01/26/quixtar-amway-sued-for-being-an-illegal-pyramid-scheme/

    http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/news/AmwayPyramidSuit.pdf

    This is posted as an example of how MLMs use "tools" or support material to make additional money that is not disclosed when the distributor "gets in". I have no idea if MonaVie operates this way or not, but with the track record of the founders of Monarch Health Sciences and MonaVie, you have to wonder and be aware.

    And this is a copy of the internal memo at Amway way back in 1983 which is absolute proof that Amway and Alticor were very aware of the money being made by kingpins with the "tool business". (there was no Quixterd...oops Quixtar...back then)
    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/postma-memo-1983.html

    If this company who is held by many as a perfect example of a "legal pyramid" or a "good MLM" can operate like this for so many years and get away with it, what hope does that give you for the ethical practices in these new MLMs that keep popping up everywhere?

  395. KingTut57 says:

    Candace,
    I will have a discussion. I was just getting frustrated because I felt I was the only one who would actually listen to what was being said. I have read all the postings and have tried my hardest not to be biased. It is hard. When we read we start to defend our original thoughts before finish reading. I have done more and more research on a lot of the things we have talked about. I'm going to answer your questions right now to the best of my ability.

    1. "what is the actual Acai berry content in one bottle of Monavie?"

    Answer: I have been told and have seen on MonaVie training material that the Acai content in its juice is approximately 40%. I have been looking for this online and have yet to find it. I don't have a scanner.

    2. "Why is the sugar content so high?"

    Answer: I personally don't think that 3g of sugar per serving is that much, especially compared to the average fruit. I would say there is a generous amount because of the concentration of fruit in each serving.

    3. "If it is loaded with antioxidants, enough so that a 2oz serving twice a day will get you your entire fill of all your RDA for fruits and antioxidants, why is the label content showing only 8% vitamin c and 8% of Iron and absolutely no other vitamins or minerals? Would it not stand to reason that it should also contain at the very least vitamin A, & Vitamin E? These are antioxidants."

    Answer: I'm not a licensed nutrition specialist by any means. I have done a lot of research on antioxidants and phytonutrients however and I feel I have a strong grasp for them. The 19 fruits chosen to be put into MonaVie were handpicked for a certain reason. I would say that the reason that you don't see Vitamin A and E on the label is because these they can be found in so many other foods that we all eat quite commonly. Here are some sources of Vitamin A and E.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_A
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_A

    You will notice that there really aren't that many vitamins in MonaVie at all. This concerned me as you spoke of it. So I looked into it more. There are so many different antioxidants out there. The most common ones we get are in the form of vitamins that we get either in our foods or in our supplements (I am on USANA essentials as well as drinking MonaVie). Same discussion as Vitamin C and Iron. Iron in a supplement is usually frowned upon as it isn't easily released by the body and too high of levels can be dangerous.

    If you look up the nutritional content of freeze dried Acai, you will find that it isn't loaded with our every day vitamins. It is filled with all kinds of other antioxidants and phytonutrients that aren't put on a food label. Read through the wikipedia write-up on Acai Palm. They start to break down all the things in Acai that are a benefit to health and POTENTIAL it has to prevent many degenerative diseases.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A7a%C3%AD_berries

    If you were to look up each fruit in MonaVie on Wikipedia you would find each has a distinct makeup of antioxidants and phytonutrients/chemicals. MonaVie looked at these individual fruits for what they could bring to the table. As far as the non-vitamin antioxidants and phytonutrients are concerned, MonaVie has just about everyone that has been found by man. Many things have not yet been discovered.

    4. "Why are there no independent clinical studies put out by anyone NOT on MonaVie's payroll?"

    Answer: Any such trials done by an independent researcher would be wasted time. Even if they found proof that heart attacks were reduced with the use of MonaVie, MonaVie could not make any such medical claims as it is not medicine. This is why there are very few trials comparing vitamins. But there is one now and it's called the Comparative Guide to Nutritional Supplements. Very excellent research and findings on our day to day vitamin/mineral/antioxidant supplements. Such a study on juice would be unlikely. There will be studies but they will all be performed by a biased party. I will reiterate that me and as far as I know, nobody on my team, make false medical claims. We allow personal experiences to be told as long as we disclaim that no medical claims can be made and aren't supported by the FDA.

    Just a side note. The FDA is a JOKE. We have some of the lowest standards of what goes into our foods and supplements of any industrialized nation. The sign a product is a legit product and has what they say is in it is if it is marketed and sold in countries such as Australia and Canada who have much more strict rules on content. MonaVie and USANA are both able to market in both of these countries along with numerous others.

    5. "Why are so many of the founders/board members/doctors involved with MLMs in the past that have been fined or shut down by the FTC, and why are some of these people not honest about their credentials."

    Answer: I honestly can't answer this with facts. I think that if these people had intentially hurt or taken from people they would not be allowed to be in the positions they are in by the SEC. It seems many have been involved in companies that had good products but they were sold by people who made outlandish claims to sell the product/business. The way I avoid that is through training of my downline. I train by telling them they won't make money unless product moves. I remind them that we are wholesalers and that we are selling a product AND a business opportunity not just a business opportunity. All of my downline drink the product and believe in it themselves.

    I think that a big reason these people got in trouble is because some people believe claims such as "It will save your life" or "you can make millions easy". Neither is true. Is MonaVie a healthy drink, I think it absolutely is. Can I say from my experience that it will save a life or cure a disease? No. As far as the business side goes, people have to be told it will be hard work. If I weren't to tell them that they would end up getting mad at me when they aren't making all the money in the world. And being as how many of these people are friends and even family, I would never put myself in that position. Money is just paper and it's NOT worth threatening relationships.

    6. "Where is the proof that MonaVie has the ingredients you or MonaVie say it has in it, where is your proof that the consumer will be getting a good value for their money? Where is your proof that the Acai in MonaVie is better, higher amount, better processed than any other Acai juice or product on the market right now?
    Again, is this info only coming from MonaVie, or can these claims be substantiated by any other studies, analysis, lab report, etc ***done by someone other than MonaVie***.?"

    Answer: I myself can't guarantee that anything we consume has in it what the ingredients say are in it. I know MonaVie is recorded as the largest purchaser of Acai in the world. I hope they are actually putting it in the juice and not in the garbage. I do know, and if you refer back to the Wikipedia research on Acai, that the freeze-dried form of the fruit is way more potent, easier to transport and doesn't lose its antioxidant/phytonutrient content. Here is a write-up on why freeze-dried is better than the berry alone.

    http://ezinearticles.com/?Freeze-Dried-Acai-What-Makes-it-Better?&id=1316193

    Here is another article comparing the different ways of getting acai into American products.

    http://www.powersupplements.com/acai/acai-research.html

    I do know that MonaVie has a patent pending process for freeze-drying Acai as efficeintly as possible. This patent, once given, will last for 15 years. Because it is pending, I'm sure they are not willing to release the details. This is the only explanation I can find as to why the details aren't public information. I assume when the patent is give, they will be more open with their process.

    7. Question about protien content.

    Answer: There is protein but not enough to make up one gram for every ounce of MonaVie.

    8. Training materials question.

    Answer: As of today I have a very even binary tree below me. I have 7 people on my right and 7 on my left. I have yet to order any training material. I don't need to. There are is too much free literature on the web.

    As far as my upline is concerned, if I buy training material they do not get paid commissions.

    I don't know who produces the training materials. I don't need them. As you have said material from MonaVie itself gives no proof of anything. Being that this is my third MLM, this one by far has the most available training online...for free. Try blackdiamonduniversity.com. Or brighart.com. Both of these sites have a ton of videos on both the product and the business, and it's almost all free. MonaVie by far has the best support I have found from an upline in an MLM. This is the reason we have so quickly paid for our product and have people below us about to do the same.

    And to both you other funny guys dissing on MVs compensation plan. Many of those people that are making less than minimum wage aren't trying to make more than that. They simply drink the juice and got a couple other people to drink it too. This is our 3rd full week and we will be star 1000s by pay period end tomorrow night. We have not put all that much time in. We have established our strong base and now we will train those below us to do what we did.

    I hope I have answered your questions. I'm sure I haven't SOLD you on anything, but this is what I have learned about MonaVie as a product and a business.

    P.S. All of you comments can really get a guy thinking. Last night I did a bunch of research and there were just too many positives. I have never spent more time with my wife. I have never been in closer contact with my friends. I have never been so active. I have never been this excited...well at least since my football days. I found something that I think is a true value and an opportunity that is real. I know because we have a debit card that is just starting to snowball in money. Just so you know over 20,000 products are sold by MLMs. It is a growing industry and many estimate it as the next big trend in our economy. Paul Zane Pilzner said it was manufacturing first, distributing second, and network/relational marketing will be next. I'm on my third and so far it's a charm.

    Thanks for listening!

  396. Vogel says:

    I'll take #1 and #2...
    1. "What is the actual Acai berry content in one bottle of Monavie?"
    Answer: "I have been told and have seen on MonaVie training material that the Acai content in its juice is approximately 40%. I have been looking for this online and have yet to find it. I don't have a scanner."
    Reply: In other words you can't officially confirm the amount of acai. This is precisely our complaint.
    2. Why is the sugar content so high?
    Answer: "I personally don't think that 3g of sugar per serving is that much, especially compared to the average fruit. I would say there is a generous amount because of the concentration of fruit in each serving.
    Reply: Actually, you fudged the numbers – read the label. It has 4 g per ounce (8-16 g per 2-4 ounce serving). It is "that much" relative to not only other fruit juices but also every leading brand of soft drink (see #349). Monavie contains 60% more sugar per ounce than pure grapefruit juice, 45% more than pure OJ, and 18% to 25% more sugar than 7-Up, Coke, Pepsi, and Sprite.

  397. KingTut57 says:

    Vogel,
    #1. I want you to find any product that says exactly what percent each ingredient is of the product.

    #2. If for one second you agree that the fruit in MV contains the levels of antioxidants and phytonutrients of 13 fruits in 4oz, than the 12 g of sugar is very low. It has 3g per ounce as I'm holding a bottle right now. So, in my drinking of 13 servings of fruit I am only consuming 12g of sugar.

    Also, check your math. Last time I checked a 12oz can of Pepsi or Coke had approximately 45g of sugar. 12oz of MonaVie, which would be consumed over 3 days, contains 36g of sugar. You tell me how that is 18%-25% more than these sodas. Not only that but the sugar in a soda is high-fructose corn syrup, widely known to be the worse sugar to consume. MonaVie's sugar is fructose which is the best sugar you can eat.

  398. KingTut57 says:

    Vogel,
    Your comments are exactly why I don't want to have this discussion. You have not once agreed with any point made. You are saying that you are right and nothing can change that. My aspect of MonaVie doesn't matter to you so why should I talk about it. This is like an 8 year old's discussion.

  399. lattimore says:

    king tut

    your comments are exactly why i stay here.

    will you concede that we dont know if antioxidants do anything?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant

    will you concede that according to mv's own report that 9 out of 10 people who try selling it make less than minimum wage for their efforts?

    once again you said

    From the start I always say that MonaVie makes no medical claims. I also clearly state that if my new distributors want to make money it is going to take a lot of work, and to start will only produce pennies on the dollar.

    if we aren't selling this on a medical claim and 9 out of 10 people selling it could make more as a doorman at walmart, what is the draw to sell it?

  400. Lazy Man says:

    I think the draw to it is the quick and easy replacement of eating fruit. At least that's what I've been able to surmise. I just haven't been able to substantiate the supposition that 4oz of MonaVie is equal to 13 fruits.

  401. KingTut57 says:

    Lattimore,
    I think there is plenty of research and findings out there to justify saying that antioxidants are essential for longer and healthier lives.

    I will concede that 9/10 people make a very small wage. This is simply because it is very easy to sign someone up for a business opportunity for a mere $39. The problem is that the people doing such don't understand that the only way we get paid is by moving product, just like any legitimate business or MLM. Also, many of those people aren't in it for the business. I would say right now I am earning $10/hour. My first week I was earning probably $1/hour. It is the nature of the business. I make a lot more than that at my current job. The thing is, now that we have a strong base, duplicating by training is simple. The binary plan is excellent because who couldn't get two people to enroll and buy juice? It's that simple. Many people over complicate the whole thing by trying to sign everybody up. This creates low quality underlings and wasted time.

    We can't sell it as on a medical claim as it is not medicine. It is simply an easy way to get the antioxidants and phytonutrients that our bodies don't get in our natural environments.

    For me, a lot of the people around me aren't into health. I'm sure you'd agree that eating fruit is important...many nutritionists think it's the most important food to eat. So, if these people I know are eating 3 servings of fruit per week, does it hurt to get them their servings by a convenient juice? I don't think so. I actually think it is my responsibility to support the people I know and love. If I truly think that MonaVie has the things we need, than wouldn't it be irresponsible of me not to at least present it to my friends and family? I think it would.

  402. Candace says:

    Ryan,

    Thank you for returning to the discussion table.
    I appreciate the fact that you returned and that you've taken the time to address these questions to the best of your ability.
    I will not address questions 1 & 2 as I see that Vogel has already done so.
    I will just say that while I understand your argument that other food manufacturers do not always list what percentage of what ingredient is in their product, just as many more do. So, it is disheartening and misleading when a company producing a product that they are marketing as a superfood does not list the actual percentage of the "superfood" found in said product. Thus the price issue comes into play...how do we know that MonaVie is worth paying 20-40 bucks a bottle, when we have no way of knowing what is in the bottle.
    If you take away the "business" side of MonaVie, one can easily find freeze dried Acai products that utilize the skin and pulp, not the seed, for *much* less money, some claiming a much higher ORAC value than what we've seen so far in MonaVie's support material. I hope that you can see why this is an issue. One such product I found also lists the percentage of acai in the product, how it is processed, where it comes from, how it re-invests in the rainforest, and the vitamin, mineral, and antioxidant values in one serving of said product. I don't understand why MonaVie won't do the same...and it leaves one wondering exactly why MonaVie does not disclose this information.

    OK, on to question #3: "If it is loaded with antioxidants, enough so that a 2oz serving twice a day will get you your entire fill of all your RDA for fruits and antioxidants, why is the label content showing only 8% vitamin c and 8% of Iron and absolutely no other vitamins or minerals? Would it not stand to reason that it should also contain at the very least vitamin A, & Vitamin E? These are antioxidants."

    Just so we are clear here...I am not asking why MonaVie doesn't *add* vitamins and minerals to the MonaVie juice. I am asking why, if the acai berry is so incredibly high in antioxidants, that content is not reflected in the vitamin and mineral (nutritional info)listing on the label of MonaVie juice? It is next to impossible to find any clinical studies of the acai berry. We have some studies people have done, but they are certainly not independent clinical peer reviewed studies. The best I could find to demonstrate my question for you is this:
    http://www.thesuperberry.com/constituents.htm

    Now, I have no idea who these people are, but I do see that so far they are the only site I can find that gives a detailed listing of the nutritional value in the acai berry.
    I can't post the article here, the info doesn't copy and paste correctly. You'll have to click on the link for that, I apologize.

    But on their chart, all info I will relay is for 100grams of acai berry, they state that there is 932mg of Potassium, 286mg of calcium, 174mg of magnesium, 7mg of Zinc, 0.25mg B1, 45mg Vitamin E. My point is, if MonaVie contained ONLY acai berries, it should still have these vitamins and minerals listed on the nutrition label. And since MonaVie is a juice blend of 19 fruits, it should have significantly higher amounts of these vitamins and minerals in 100grams of juice. Why has MonaVie not listed these naturally occurring vitamins and minerals? It is hard to imagine any manufacturer not wanting to advertise the nutritional value of their product to the Nth degree, but MonaVie lists only 2% Iron and 2% Vitamin C. Frankly, this does not make sense to me. Is it at all possible that MonaVie knows it must be in compliance with the FDA and truth in labeling, so MonaVie does not list any more nutritional value than what *is actually in one serving of MonaVie*? If this is the case, then, of course, MonaVie has little nutritional value.

    This does not add up.

    Ryan, I will quote you here: "If you were to look up each fruit in MonaVie on Wikipedia you would find each has a distinct makeup of antioxidants and phytonutrients/chemicals. MonaVie looked at these individual fruits for what they could bring to the table. As far as the non-vitamin antioxidants and phytonutrients are concerned, MonaVie has just about everyone that has been found by man. Many things have not yet been discovered."

    This is exactly why I am confused. I have looked up each individual fruit. That being said, the numbers for the vitamin and mineral content in one serving of MonaVie should be very high, but it is not. Why is this? Is it possible that all of the reported ingredients are *not really in the juice*?

    Question #4 "Why are there no independent clinical studies put out by anyone NOT on MonaVie's payroll?"

    "Answer: Any such trials done by an independent researcher would be wasted time."

    I unequivocally disagree with your statement. How much time and energy do you suppose has been wasted by people here trying to understand and figure out what exactly the truth is about the nutritional value and dollar value there is in MonaVie? Multiply that by how many others that are also trying to discern the same things...how much is their time and energy worth? If the product truly is what it claims to be, an unbiased independent clinical peer reviewed study would be a no brainer for the company, perhaps 2 or 3 just to make sure the message was clear. Can you IMAGINE the increase in sales and distributorships this would create?? There MUST be a reason that MonaVie has not put a priority on such a study. Truly, if the money were really there for the king pin distributors, would it not be in their best interests to get MonaVie clinically studied in a proper manner? Because, let's be honest, financially, what is it COSTING the kingpins and other distributors money every single day to not have a proper study out there. All of the people I've been around and have as friends and socialize with that are millionaires and higher do not let *one single penny slide from their grasp if they can avoid it*. They are the most frugal and money conscious people I know. So, from a financial standpoint for the distributors, NOT having an unbiased independent clinical peer reviewed study done is literally taking money out of their pockets. I hope you can understand what I am saying.

    Can you imagine, Ryan, just by having this one thing, the time and energy you could save and the money you could be making.

    Unless, of course, MonaVie knows that such a study will show that their nutritional claims are not accurate.

    Question #5, I am glad to read your stance on this. Obviously you have good ethics and want to do the right thing. Sadly, if this is a scam, a person of your caliber will be hurt very much. Ryan, I will just state this one more time...these people do NOT have good track records. This is NOT a good sign. This alone is reason enough for me and many others to steer clear. I advise extreme caution. I cannot stress that enough. Be aware.

    Question 6, I appreciate your answer. But, of course, you know that it doesn't really prove anything. So we will call #6 still unknown.

    Question #7 about protein content. Oddly enough on the page I referenced earlier they show that 100grams of Acai has 13 grams of protein in it. So, if the acai berry is 40% of the content on a bottle of MonaVie, someone do some math for me and tell me what the protein content should be on the label?

    Question #8 about the support materials. I am glad to hear your answer, and I hope for you that it stays this way. But please stay alert on this topic. This is a common problem in MLMs.

    Some more interesting nutritional links in regard to the acai berry.
    Dr. Ralph W. Moss, Ph.D. of the National Parkinson Foundation:
    http://forum.parkinson.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3491&sid=36252fc8542cb014c0f45bc0e7b1dee4

    The European standards and thoughts on SuperFoods:
    http://www.foodanddrinkeurope.com/news/ng.asp?n=80853-datamonitor-superfoods-health-claims

    And this is interesting from PalateWorks, information and services for food businesses:
    http://www.palateworks.com/bloopers.html
    Paragraph #192. "An "energy" supplement drink containing acai and other fruit purees claims "high levels of omega fatty-acids, iron" and protein. DECEMBER 2007
    The Supplement/Nutrition Facts panel for this product shows 5 mg omega 3 fatty-acids, 4% of the Daily Value (DV) for iron, and no protein. Clearly, this product is not high in iron or protein (both would need to provide at least 10% of the DV), and to imply that 5 mg omega 3 is high is misleading (not to mention illegal), because it is actually very low. If the supplement had 500 mg, then it might be more impressive, although it still couldn't be described as a "good source" or "high in" omega 3 fatty-acids, since no Daily Value has been established to set the 100% (basically a recommended daily) level. Note also that claims that a fruit is high in antioxidants often only apply to the fresh fruit, not the processed juice or puree that is being sold/advertised (processing and even transportation time greatly reduce antioxidant content). This is a common form of false advertising. If the nutrition label doesn't show a vitamin A or C value of at least 10% DV, then the product is NOT legally a "good source" of antioxidants (for "high" it would need to be at least 20% of DV)."

    It is very hard to get correct nutritional information for the acai berry, let alone products containing acai. That alone is one more reason to be very cautious going into the MonaVie business, consuming the product, and selling it to others.

    Usually when the information is not readily available it means someone is covering something up. Either the results of analysis will not be favorable and someone already knows this, or the claims made are inaccurate and no one wants to be exposed. This holds true for all products and businesses, not just MonaVie.

    As for Paul Zane Pilzner, you are correct in referencing what he says. I have read his books, heard him speak more times than I can count on both hands, and met him. Remarkable man. Problem is, you *must* have the right product and distribution system.

    Brig & Lita Hart I have also heard speak more times than I can count on both hands. Have met them, have photos with them. Still not impressed. But that's my personal assessment.

    Ryan, if after all of this, you continue to pursue MonaVie, I sincerely wish you nothing but the best. I honestly hope that I am wrong and that MonaVie is a wonderfully, legitimate, upstanding business. I appreciate your discussion. However, I respectfully have to say that I think it's not a good business model or a truthful product. After much research, that's just my personal opinion.

  403. Candace says:

    Lazy Man, your post #404. This is what I think as well. However, something is very concerning to me about that. I had intended to address this earlier and got distracted, because, well, there's so many rabbits to chase with this thing called MonaVie.

    It is concerning to me that the inference or implication when distributors talk about drinking MonaVie and getting "all of your RDA for fruits" in two 2 oz servings, is that one will NOT need to continue eating roughly 5 full cups of organic fresh fruit daily. There is an implied message that you can drink MonaVie and not worry about eating garbage. Or that one can drink MonaVie and get their entire fruit servings for the day and *discontinue* eating fresh fruits.
    I think this is a dangerous fine line for MonaVie distributors to walk. Especially when there is no proof whatsoever of the actual nutritional content of MonaVie.

  404. Lazy Man says:

    For what it's worth Candace, KingTut explained the protein in comment 387. It was a simple mistake - we all make them. The explanation was, "When acai is freeze dried it loses its protein content but not its micronutrient content."

    I'm not a freeze drying expert, so I will buy this on the face of it. However, this shows that acai does indeed lose something in processing. Thus I'm not sure we can trust any studies on acai and apply it to MonaVie. What if the micronutrients have a synergistic effect with the protein in the acai tests. Since the protein is gone, maybe that effect is gone too. We don't know, so I suggest that we look at the actual finished product and not so much the ingredients.

  405. Candace says:

    Lazy Man,
    You are correct. I did see that he made that post and I noted that in my post #391.
    However, I am not a scientist and trying to find and understand information about the nutritional value of the acai berry alone is difficult, not to mention then taking into consideration how it is processed. So, I went off the chart I referenced here: http://www.thesuperberry.com/constituents.htm but I failed to think about how *that particular site* may or may not have processed the berries before the analysis.

    You have a point...but then again...that brings us right back to the point where we all realize that the only nutritional information we have about MonaVie comes from...MonaVie.

    Vogel, are you wearing your scientists' hat today? What are your thoughts?

  406. Vogel says:

    Re: #1
    King Tut: "I want you to find any product that says exactly what percent each ingredient is of the product."

    Reply: OK, my OJ and grapefruit juice both say on the label that they contain 100% OJ and grapefruit juice (not from concentrate), respectively. That seems pretty clear. You are saying that Monavie contains 40% acai but yet you can't prove it. If the company can't back the claim, why should we believe it? Again, we are back to our original complaint – the manufacturer does not disclose the amount of acai in Monavie, and yet they pin the alleged efficacy of the product on the inclusion of this ingredient.

    Re #2:
    King Tut: "If for one second you agree that the fruit in MV contains the levels of antioxidants and phytonutrients of 13 fruits in 4oz, than the 12 g of sugar is very low. It has 3g per ounce as I'm holding a bottle right now. So, in my drinking of 13 servings of fruit I am only consuming 12g of sugar."

    Reply: First of all, I definitely don't agree that MV contains levels of antioxidants and phytonutrients of 13 fruits in 4 oz. Why should I? Is this something that the company is claiming officially? If so, back it up.

    Unless there is substantial proof and official validation, you cannot support your claim that MV contains 13 servings of fruit in 4 oz. It's an absurd speculation that defies logic and the laws of physics.

    Secondly, I'm not sure what bottle you might be looking at, but these 2 sites show the sugar content listed on the label as 4 g per ounce: http://beeractivist.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/monavie_nutrition.jpg
    http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/images/monavie_nutrition.jpg

    Can you show us evidence of a label now saying that it contains only 3 g sugar per ounce?

    As I said before, 4 g per ounce is substantially more sugar than is in OJ, grapefruit juice, Coke, Sprite, 7-Up and Pepsi.

    Re: General
    King Tut: "Your comments are exactly why I don't want to have this discussion. You have not once agreed with any point made. You are saying that you are right and nothing can change that. My aspect of MonaVie doesn't matter to you so why should I talk about it. This is like an 8 year old's discussion."

    Reply: I agree that this is like having a discussion with an 8-year old, but I'm being patient with you nonetheless. I have agreed with many comments; just none of your. Why should I agree with anything that is blatantly false or completely speculative? You are the one making the fantastic claims, so the onus is on you to prove them. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So far, you haven't even provided sub-ordinary evidence.

  407. Candace says:

    This is in regards to other "superfruit juices", apparently MonaVie was not available for this test at the time they ran the study. However, juices from other MLMs that Dallin Larsen has been known to be affiliated with were studied. It cannot be used as an absolute when defining MonaVie, but it can give us an insight into how these types of juices meet their own marketing claims.

    This is an interesting article, mainly because they cite a study done in Australia. Here's the article:
    http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4086

    Here's how they quantified their findings:
    * CHOICE tested the antioxidants in the juices (using a measure called ORAC) because that's what most of the juice manufacturers talk about in their marketing.

    The one message that consistently stood out in the marketing literature for superfruits in general was the claim of their superior antioxidant capacity. The total antioxidant capacity (TAC) can be measured using an ORAC (oxygen radical absorbance capacity) test.

    The testing allowed CHOICE to compare the TAC of a serve of superjuice (the ones we'd purchased were tested to provide examples) with serves of more common fruits. We used the TAC of a red delicious apple as a point of reference given that it's a relatively cheap fruit, that's commonly available in Australian supermarkets and greengrocers.

    Total antioxidant capacity is just one feature of superfruits, however. A high antioxidant score doesn't necessarily guarantee benefits in the body. In addition, antioxidant capacity can also be artificially boosted by preservatives (which can have antioxidant activity) that are sometimes present in superfruit juices.

    This means that for some of the juices, the antioxidant capacity attributable to the preservative-free component could actually be somewhat lower than the total antioxidant capacity of the product as a whole which we reported.

    And here's the study:
    http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle.aspx?id=105902&catId=100289&tid=100008&p=2&title=Superfruit+juices

  408. lattimore says:

    i apologize for pretty much being a smart arse on here. but the people who sell snakeoil drive me crazy. i see no difference in it and 3rd world voodoo doctors who pull chicken guts out of your abdomen to show you it works. It all boils down to taking advantage of people (often the people in the worst situations) in the name of greed. disgusting.

  409. lattimore says:

    not saying all mv distributors are evil but that many many are.

  410. Vogel says:

    Re: Post #407

    "KingTut explained the protein in comment 387... The explanation was, ‘When acai is freeze dried it loses its protein content but not its micronutrient content'. I'm not a freeze drying expert, so I will buy this on the face of it. However, this shows that acai does indeed lose something in processing."

    Expert here. Freeze drying alone will not cause any loss in protein content. Freeze drying is basically just the removal of residual water at low temperature. Unless they are adding some kind of chemicals or doing something other than freeze drying, the protein wouldn't suddenly vanish when the acai is dehydrated and frozen; it would take something to hydrolyze it (e.g. by acid, enzymes) or denature it (e,g, by heat, harsh chemicals). The obvious explanation is that Monavie contains too little acai to benefit from the berry's protein content.

    Re: Post 408

    Candace, I've got my scientist hat back on now. I agree with you that there really isn't any reliable information on the nutritional value of acai. All of the Monavie claims about the nutritional properties of acai are based on studies by Schauss/AIBMR/Monavie LLC. Namely:

    1. Schauss AG, Wu X, Prior RL, Ou B, Huang D, Owens J, Agarwal A, Jensen GS, Hart AN, Shanbrom E. Antioxidant capacity and other bioactivities of the freeze-dried Amazonian palm berry, Euterpe oleraceae mart. (acai). J Agric Food Chem. 2006 Nov 1;54(22):8604-10.

    2.Schauss AG, Wu X, Prior RL, Ou B, Patel D, Huang D, Kababick JP. Phytochemical and nutrient composition of the freeze-dried amazonian palm berry, Euterpe oleraceae mart. (acai). J Agric Food Chem. 2006 Nov 1;54(22):8598-603.

    The information at http://www.thesuperberry.com/constituents.htm is somewhat difficult to interpret, because they left out key details like how the acai was processed, and they didn't define the amount of pulp corresponding to the nutrient values listed. It also lacks references and it's unclear whether this data was ever published or where it might have been obtained. If it's just the manufacturer's in-house data and it's never been published, it can't be considered reliable.

    They do list nutrient values for defined amounts of (a) a dried acai extract (100 mg), and; (b) an acai juice (1L containing 12.5% dried acai extract), but the site's homepage also says "our acai berry extract is pharmaceutical grade, and is nutritionally far superior to freeze dried powders, liquids, and pulp". This seems to distinguish their extract from the acai used in Monavie (freeze-dried powder and pulp) and, therefore, their data can't really be extrapolated to Monavie.

  411. KingTut57 says:

    Here is a link to a MonaVie page that discusses some of the standards that MonaVie uses when producing its juice. I'm not an expert on the different standards but something for you researchers out there to take a closer look at.

    http://www.blackdiamonduniversity.com/training-product-monavie-organic.asp

  412. Vogel says:

    KingTut, you made unsupported claims regarding the amount of acai in Monavie (40% you say) and the amount of sugar (3 g/oz. when the label says 4 g/oz.), and you said that a 4 oz. shot of Monavie is equivalent to 13 servings of fruit, which is absurd and unsupported by any credible evidence.

    It is unclear why you are directing us to this company website. It doesn't mention anything about the amount of acai, sugar, or antioxidants in Monavie and it doesn't say that there is any degree of equivalency between Monavie and real fruit. It also doesn't confirm the previous claim that a shot of Monavie provides the same amount of protein as an egg.

    Surprisingly, it does contain the following false claim: "This scientific research confirms that by consuming the MonaVie products, you will see a noticeable benefit to your health". In fact, no research has ever been published showing that Monavie has health benefits.

  413. KingTut57 says:

    Vogel,
    Once again pulling one line out of an article. I was just trying to give more information.

    "This scientific research confirms that by consuming the MonaVie products, you will see a noticeable benefit to your health".

    This is not a false claim. Antioxidants have been proven to benefit health and MonaVie has a good antioxidant value. That is all it was saying.

    I was mostly posting this site to show you the different production standards that MonaVie uses. People were asking me if there was any way to prove what is in the product. I think that following such things as the FDAs Good Manufacturing Practices and the other things listed on this posting show that MonaVie isn't falsely labeling their product.

    I have already conceded that I was wrong about the protein. I had mistakenly misread some content about the protein in Acai, not MonaVie. Acai has the protein profile of an egg (meaning its proteins are amino acids similar to that of an egg, proven to be some of the best protein you can eat).

    I think the sugar discrepancy is because I drink MonaVie Active. They add glucosamine and esterified fatty acids to this version. The different content might be why there is a discrepancy between what websites say about MonaVie Originals content and MonaVie Actives content.

    I was no posting this article to prove anything. Just for more research on what it means for MonaVie to be compliant with the listed standards they say they adhere to. Read my words. I said, "I'm not an expert on the different standards but something for you researchers out there to take a closer look at."

    Just so you know I have emailed distributor support and have asked them many of the questions have not been able to answer here. As far as I'm concerned there is not enough proof for or against MonaVie to be able to pick a side.

    I wasn't arguing for or against the article. Relax.

    "It is unclear why you are directing us to this company website." There are many important comments on this posting. One was that they don't disclose the amount of Acai in the juice because it is "proprietary" information. I thought you would eat that up. I also asked MonaVie about that.

    I will post more "unclear" articles when I find them. I say unclear because no matter what I find you will pick out the couple of negative lines in them and over exaggerate how bad they are.

    Thanks for listening!

  414. Vogel says:

    Actually, I honed in on that statement because it is very misleading and explains in part why so many distributors are making false claims about health benefits.

    It is one thing to say that a product contains or provides antioxidants, but antioxidants are not equivalent to health benefits. The misleading statement said:

    "This scientific research confirms that by consuming the MonaVie products, you will see a noticeable benefit to your health".

    This does not say that you will notice an improvement in antioxidant levels (which aren't readily noticeable anyway); it specifically says that you will notice "a benefit to your health" and that "research confirms" it. There is no published research on Monavie of any kind. The claim is fraudulent and could easily get the company into serious trouble with the FDA.

    The FDA's GMP standards apply to manufacturing facilities only and have nothing to do with the products produced at those facilities.

    Just to recap where we stand on our recent discussion, the facts on the table are still these:

    1. Monavie has considerably more sugar per ounce than 100% OJ, grapefruit juice, Coke, Pepsi, Sprite, and 7-Up.
    2. The percentage/weight of acai in Monavie is undisclosed.
    3. The label does not show Monavie to be a significant source of any nutrient.
    4. There is no published data on the antioxidant capacity of Monavie.
    5. There is no indication that a 2-4 oz shot of Monavie is equivalent to even a single serving's worth of whole fruit or fruit juice.
    6. Monavie is not a significant source of protein.
    7. The company falsely claims that there is research proving that Monavie provides "noticeable benefit to your health" when no such research exists.
    8. No credible evidence has yet been provided to justify the exorbitant price.

  415. Lazy Man says:

    Since all parties agree on #6, let's move that one off the table. No point in discussing something that we all believe is true.

  416. lattimore says:

    not sure about your antioxidant claim

    Although some studies have suggested antioxidant supplements have health benefits, other large clinical trials did not detect any benefit for the formulations tested, and excess supplementation may be harmful.

    thats from wikipedia.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant

    nobody knows for sure if antioxidant intake does anything.

    please dont fabricate facts

  417. lattimore says:

    here's another on antioxidants

    http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/antioxidants.html

    i want to see a peer reviewed clinical trial that says antioxidant intake WILL do something for you. not MAY do something. I MAY be the most awesome thing around.

  418. lattimore says:

    if the supplementing your antioxidant intake can clearly make you more healthy it should be easily shown and repeated in clinical trials

  419. lattimore says:

    the link below was written by stephen barret m.d. (also wrote the kickass and highly researched article i posted above)

    http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/quacksell.html

    he lists a lot of signs of people selling quackery. but of course its just a coincedence that mv falls right in line with a lot he says.

  420. KingTut57 says:

    Vogel,
    Here is your problem. The internet is filled with a lot of information. Both good and bad. Hands on experience is better than any article or blog or whatever else might be found on the web.

    I'm sitting here at this very moment holding (with my own hands) and looking at a bottle of MonaVie Active.

    NUTRITION FACTS:
    Calories: 30
    Total Fat: 0.5g
    Cholesterol: 0mg
    Sodium: 5mg
    Potassium: 55mg
    Total Carbohydrates: 5g
    Dietary Fiber: <1g
    SUGARS: 3g
    Protein: 0g
    Vitamin C:25%
    Vitamin K:12%
    Iron:2%

    So are you going to believe someone's posting of what is in MonaVie or what the bottle says on it?

    So lets get back to your math. A 20oz bottle of Pepsi reads that it has 28g of sugar per 8oz. You know and I know that 8x3=24. This is less than 8oz of soda. Not only that but it would be consumed over 2-4 days. Also, the sugar in Pepsi is high-fructose corn syrup. It is a BS name because it really doesn't have that much fructose in it. MonaVie sugar is all fructose as there is no sugar added according to the ingredients, just fruit, glucosamine, esterified fatty acids and two preservatives (one of which occurs naturally in apples and other fruits).

    So please retract your comment that MV has more sugar per ounce than Pepsi/Coke. It is a FALSE CLAIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And I was just starting to think you were above making false claims. I don't want to hear any excuses either.

    Lattimore,
    I like how you only quote lines from Wikipedia that favor your argument. So now it's my turn. According to Wikipedia and its references "Antioxidants can cancel out the cell-damaging effects of free radicals.[9] Furthermore, people who eat fruits and vegetables, which are good sources of antioxidants, have a lower risk of heart disease and some neurological diseases..."

    Take a look at this one. This talks about why some antioxidant trials have failed:
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/r821947n38584011/

    I couldn't finish reading this article (I'm not a registered user and I'm not about to pay for it just to make a point to you), but it starts to talk about how this certain trial didn't even use the recommended amount of international units. I wonder what other trials didn't. I will give a probably reason why in a moment.

    http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/extract/168/7/773

    Here is one line from the following article. "Most trials with antioxidants in experimental models of atherosclerosis have demonstrated that this treatment is able to retard the progression of atherosclerosis, while the results of clinical trials are conflicting,1 inasmuch as positive as well as negative effects have been reported."

    http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1768262

    Who typically administers these clinical trials? Are they people in the medical field? Are they people who might lose a little business if it was proven that antioxidants and phytonutrients can prevent degenerative diseases? Can you imagine if we all fed our bodies with the proper levels of macro and micronutrients. Enough so to fend of degenerative diseases? It would save us a lot of money as 96% of us die of disease!!! Those aren't good odds. Maybe MonaVie doesn't have a lot of odds in its favor right now, but to me its worthing taking a chance since that many people die of disease.

    A little off track here but to emphasize the point I'm making. Did you know there has never been conclusive evidence that cholesterol plays a key role in the CAUSE of heart disease? There are more trials that show statins don't increase life expectancy at all and if anything decrease it. Cholesterol is essential to life and our immune systems. Lowering it in forceful ways is bad. Also, statins siginificantly lower Co-enzyme Q10. Read up on the importance of that antioxidant. Yet how come statins are the pharmaceutical companies biggest profit generator? A doctor in the 1860s found placque in the arteries of a rat and that placque had some cholesterol in it. Next thing you know its 2008 and people are buying billions of dollars of cholesterol lowering meds and shortening their lives even more so. Do you know how much many the pharmaceutical companies pay some of the biggest medical schools in the country to get their studies in the text books? Whatever number you are thinking it's more.

    The point I'm making here is that I believe a clinical trial as much as you believe what MonaVie says about its products.

    Check this site out about labeling a food. MonaVie is NOT a dietary supplement therefore there are rules as to what it can label on its bottle. One line reads "You must list dietary ingredients without RDIs or DRVs in the "Supplement Facts" panel for dietary supplements. You are not permitted to list these ingredients in the "Nutrition Facts" panel for foods." This to me is explanation as to why MonaVie doesn't/can't list all of its goodness on the bottle.

    http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/dslg-4.html#4-2

    Another quote from this page. "No. You may not declare protein on your products that contain only amino acids." So I feel I am right that MonaVie does have a similar protein profile of an egg as amino acids are a form of protein.

    I read this following page as saying that unless a RDI has been established for something that has been ADDED to the food, it can't be listed on the label.

    http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/2lg-7a.html

    This is all just some more stuff to take a look at. I think it is all legitimate non-biased information...except for my comments of course.

    Candace I hope you read this stuff.

    I'm excited to hear the counter arguments. Vogel you will pick a couple negative things out of my articles and won't concede that you made a false claim earlier. Lattimore you won't even understand what I'm saying. And Candace will actually put together a long rebuttal (sp? as I've never spelled that word before) with too many links to even read. But, at least you will be nice about it Candace.

    Thanks for listening!!!

  421. lattimore says:

    we'll keep this simple so you can understand

    please give me a yes or no on the fact that 9 out of 10 people who sell mv make less than min. wage for their time.

    your dismissal of the scientiffic process is hilarious. How do you think scientists figure out if something works or not? i know the folks at the new england med. journal, usda, and american heart assoc. are all hacks who are out to take your hard earned mv dollars. (heavy sarcasm if you cant tell, i'm sorry if i confused you earlier).

    ps. amino acids arent a form of protein. the are a building block of protein, but are not a protein any more than a tree is a log home.

  422. lattimore says:

    i no longer believe in gravity. its set up by those who make money off of weight loss drugs.

    that makes good sense too.

  423. KingTut57 says:

    Lattimore,
    Apparently you are an awful listener. I have already said that the majority of people in MonaVie don't make more than minimum wage. What does that have to do with anything? They don't have to do it. Nobody is making them sell MonaVie.

    You are wrong about the 9 out of 10 people however. The average check for a Star 500 is $83. The average amount of time worked is 12 hours. The approximately equals $6.92 which is more than the current federal minimum wage. So, the number is 78%.

    Quit fabricating facts. I thought you were above that too. I guess you and Vogel are no better than a MonaVie distributor who makes false claims.

    I said NOTHING of the scientific process. I know those people know what they are doing. I was giving an example of how money can affect the outcomes of studies/trials.

    I still want to know why a trial would give less than the RDI of a specific vitamin/antioxidant?

    Also, if antioxidants weren't proven to do anything for us and you are so much for the "scientific process" than why does our own FDA have recommended amounts for many of them?

    About amino acids. I was just trying to keep things simple. You are right, they aren't a FORM of protein. But they are what makes protein very important.

    "i no longer believe in gravity. its set up by those who make money off of weight loss drugs." Where did I ever say anything about the science being set up by anybody? I didn't. I said the outcomes of studies can be very biased. Your analogy has no meaning here.

    Are you kidding me with the comment, "we'll keep this simple so you can understand." I'm not the one making analogies that have no relation to what we are talking about. Not only that, but I'm sure you know that sarcasm is a mask for your own self-doubts. And seeing as how that is all you use to communicate, you deeply doubt everything that comes out of your mouth.

    I'm having a conversation. You are just making spiteful and sarcastic comments.

    No comment on the quotes I provided on the importance of antioxidants? I was expecting some cold hard facts.

  424. lattimore says:

    do the math for the bottom 90%. not just the top section of that 90.

    your math is on par with your logic.

    you are disclaiming the clinical trials as useless. the clinical trial is part of the scientific method.

    the bottom of this article

    http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/antioxidants.html

    lists several clinical trials that refute what you are saying!!!! they were published in reputable journals.

    you dont believe in clinical trials even though they are part of the scientific method.

    (from quackwatch)
    Scientists who conduct experiments they consider significant usually report their results to a peer-reviewed journal. The journal editor sends copies to other scientists who are experts in the same field. They check whether the work is accurate, up-to-date, and adheres to the principles of scientific investigation. The paper is then accepted, rejected, or returned to the author with suggestions for revision. Peer review thus serves as a tool for weeding out sloppy work and unwarranted conclusions. Publication in a peer-reviewed journal indicates that the paper has met that journal's standards. Of course, not all journals enjoy equal status in the scientific community. Publication by a journal like Nature, Science, the New England Journal of Medicine, or JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association) is quite a feather in a scientist's cap!

    all of evidence falls squarely in the above category.

  425. lattimore says:

    hahaha

    I said NOTHING of the scientific process. I know those people know what they are doing. I was giving an example of how money can affect the outcomes of studies/trials.

    why do you keep using mv's questionable reasearch papers and not ones published in major publications like those that my evidence are listed in?

  426. lattimore says:

    mv might have influenced the research in some of the research they paid for.

    (making sure you understood my point)

  427. lattimore says:

    apologies on the 9 of 10. should be bottom 90% average 5.24 or so

  428. KingTut57 says:

    Seriously?

    "do the math for the bottom 90%. not just the top section of that 90."

    I will do the math for you using the 2008 income disclosure sheet found on this page.
    http://blackdiamonduniversity.com/training-home.asp

    There were a total of 35,741 distributors.

    13,451 made an average weekly check of $37 while working an average of 8 hours per week. This comes to $4.625 per hour. This is below the federal minimum wage.

    14,236 made an average weekly check of $42 while working an average of 11 hours per week. This comes to $3.818 per hour. This is below the federal minimum wage.

    The next level had $4,388 people making an average weekly check of $83 while working an average 12 hours per week. This comes to $6.917 per hour. This is HIGHER than todays federal minimum wage that is $5.85. On Thursday of this coming week it goes to $6.55 which is still less than this.

    Every level beyond this makes even more, and many a lot more.

    So lets finish the math for you. 27,687 distributors made less than minimum wage. Of the 35,741 distributors that there were, this equals 77.4656556%, which the last time I checked was less than 90%. I need you to concede that you were wrong.

    Also, you should read the print below the disclosure. "In 2007, approximately 91% of individuals who executed a MonaVie Distributor
    Application and Agreement were considered Wholesale Customers." This means they weren't even in it for the business.

    I never said I don't belive clinical trials. I simply said that companies pay big money for studies to be done a certain way. This allows for results to be somewhat biased. The trials themselves are science and I won't argue with science. The skewing of results is where things get gray.

    "why do you keep using mv's questionable reasearch papers and not ones published in major publications like those that my evidence are listed in?" You asked me.

    Tell me which of MV's questionable research papers I used. I would like to know because as far as I know MonaVie hasn't done any of its own clinical trials.

    I have already said that even if MonaVie had trials done, it would NOT be able to make any medical claims as it is NOT a medicine. Here is what it can do. When was the last time you ate a box of Cheerios? Do you remember the box saying that the product promotes a healthy heart? It does say something like this. Cheerios is a food not a medicine or supplement. So even though there are numerous studies proving the heart benefits of eating whole grains and Cheerios has whole grain in it, they CANNOT say that Cheerios prevents heart disease. Do you understand what I'm saying here?

    You want me to provide a study that would only allow MonaVie to say the same thing you can about your average fruit. That it promotes good health. We can go around and around about this but there will NEVER be a statement on any FOOD that says this product can cure/prevent a disease. If that is what you are looking for than you are chasing a dream.

    And if you make one more comment referring to my intelligence I will be done with this conversation. Such statements are your own ways of attacking me. I am trying to simply give reference to why I think MonaVie is legitimate. Here is why you are wrong about my intelligence. Here is the deal. I was top ten in my high school class (252 graduates). I was the top male graduate at the university I attended. I was on the deans list every year. I was academic all-conference every year I played football. I was academic all-american my senior year. And my name sits at the college football hall of fame as a standout student athlete. My last wonderlic score was a 33.

    No personal attacks are necessary.

  429. lattimore says:

    lets compare the nutrtional facts of mv vs. v8 low sodium

    monavie

    NUTRITION FACTS:
    Calories: 30
    Total Fat: 0.5g
    Cholesterol: 0mg
    Sodium: 5mg
    Potassium: 55mg
    Total Carbohydrates: 5g
    Dietary Fiber: <1g
    SUGARS: 3g
    Protein: 0g
    Vitamin C:25%
    Vitamin K:12%
    Iron:2%
    source: king tut

    i'm not sure but i believe this comes in a 750ml bottle and is recomends 2oz servings. thats 12-13 servings for 35-40 dollars or so.

    2.69 per serving taking the low price and 13 servings.

    v8 low sodium

    Calories 50
    Total Fat 0 g
    Sat. Fat 0 g
    Cholesterol 0 mg
    Sodium 140 mg
    Potassium 820 mg
    Total Carb. 10 g
    Dietary Fiber 2 g
    Sugars 8 g
    Protein 2 g

    %Daily Values**
    Vitamin A 40%
    Vitamin C 120%
    Vitamin E 0%
    Calcium 2%
    Iron 2%
    source :http://www.v8juice.com/v8.aspx?ProductID=2464

    this has 6 8oz servings for around 4.50 to 5.50 f you buy the big plastic bottle.

    .91 per serving taking high range of prices

    it still looks like v8 is a superior product.

  430. lattimore says:

    v8 link again if you dont want to type it

    http://www.v8juice.com/v8.aspx?ProductID=2464

  431. KingTut57 says:

    Lattimore,
    I have a long post pending approval about your previous comments. Do you know how long that usually takes?. But, about the V8 argument, I agree that label for label and price for price V8 wins. I drink it myself. The price claim is only true if you buy MV to drink and not distribute. You spreading the good word about V8 doesn't pay you back anything.

    Like I said before I am awaiting a response from MonaVie regarding what claims it can make about the different things in its juice that they can't put on the label. I will forward the response when I get it.

    I now see how you came up with the 9 out of 10 below minimum wage argument. Understandable.

  432. KingTut57 says:

    I have two posts waiting moderator approval. How long does this take and what makes a post need approval?

  433. lattimore says:

    u may have thrown a questionable link?? while you wait read my next post

  434. lattimore says:

    your arguements change to suit you. when we started this discussion ryan referred to mv like this:
    Why be upset with a company that offers an opportunity that is very inexpensive. Have you looked at franchise fees lately? For $40 to start and $200 a month to have the opportunity to make money on my own time while consuming a product that could potentially extend my life. I see casino parking lots packed at 8 in the morning with people betting their childrens dinner money on something that they have NO chance of coming out on top with.

    and

    Not only that, but having team meetings and thinking of new ideas to expand the business is fun. No bosses, no time clocks, none of that. Just friends trying to be healthy and trying to live a fulfilling life.

    and

    A few things about your post. So you are saying that because a product is good on the distributor side that it is bad on the consumer side? Really? The company you work for is in business for ONE reason, to make money. If I have the best product on the market why can't it be a win-win situation for the consumer and the distributor.

    and

    What would be wrong with me making enough money representing something I use and believe in myself to quit my job? I don't know about you but working for someone else on their conditions isn't very fun. I'd rather work with friend when I want where I want. You are a slave to your company and they pay you with thousandths of a percent of their revenues.

    now that its shown its not that hot of a product we get this:

    Apparently you are an awful listener. I have already said that the majority of people in MonaVie don't make more than minimum wage. What does that have to do with anything? They don't have to do it. Nobody is making them sell MonaVie.

    which leads to this rocking quote

    I can deal with naive people, mean people, angry people, slow people and even lyers, but I will never deal with Hypocrasy!

    to further prove my point about this let us talk about statins

    You should be talking about something constructive like how statins have never been proven to lower death rates and often times increase them. Talk about a scandal.

    then a little while later you talk about the same thing,but
    A little off track here but to emphasize the point I'm making. Did you know there has never been conclusive evidence that cholesterol plays a key role in the CAUSE of heart disease? There are more trials that show statins don't increase life expectancy at all and if anything decrease it. Cholesterol is essential to life and our immune systems. Lowering it in forceful ways is bad. Also, statins siginificantly lower Co-enzyme Q10. Read up on the importance of that antioxidant. Yet how come statins are the pharmaceutical companies biggest profit generator? A doctor in the 1860s found placque in the arteries of a rat and that placque had some cholesterol in it. Next thing you know its 2008 and people are buying billions of dollars of cholesterol lowering meds and shortening their lives even more so. Do you know how much many the pharmaceutical companies pay some of the biggest medical schools in the country to get their studies in the text books? Whatever number you are thinking it's more.
    The point I'm making here is that I believe a clinical trial as much as you believe what MonaVie says about its products.

    that last sentence is kinda the kicker here. first it was a valid topic worthy of review. now its proof the clinical trials are useless.

    once again
    I can deal with naive people, mean people, angry people, slow people and even lyers, but I will never deal with Hypocrasy!

  435. KingTut57 says:

    Lattimore,
    The first things I said about MonaVie were in MY experience. I am having fun. I am making money. I am spending time with friends. I am making more than minimum wage. If other people in the business are less productive, what does that have to do with me. I am training my team to do what I do because it is working. You can't take quotes out of context like you just did.

    I never said clinical trials were useless. You are misquoting which in itself is wrong. I said I don't trust in them all the time because of the spins that can be put on them. I think the results from many clinical trials are irresponsibly used by many different companies out there. Once again, the trials themselves are science and I won't argue with science.

    You can't mix my quotes about my personal experience with my quotes about the average MV distributor and call me a hypocrite. I like the opportunity MV provides and I feel I am doing well with it and that I'm helping my team do well also. That has nothing to do with the fact that there are many distributors out there that aren't doing the same. Just because I said it's a great opportunity for me doesn't mean it is for everybody. It is for me. Is it for you, maybe not, I don't know.

    I could go back through all of your previous quotes and find all kinds of hypocrisy...kind of like you making false claims about 9 out of 10 people making less than minimum wage while at the same time you were knocking MV distributors and the company itself for making false claims. There are many more I'm sure, but I'm not going to pull them all out of context like you have done.

    Earlier on, and I have already said this, I was letting emotion have a stangle hold on my comments. I have adjusted this and I feel I'm just discussing points in a good conversational tone.

  436. lattimore says:

    your quotes were all impying that mv was a great money maker also until it was shown it is not.

    feel free to quote me.

    we'll let that set to the side for now.

    you did say clinical trials are useless

    The point I'm making here is that I believe a clinical trial as much as you believe what MonaVie says about its products.

    or maybe you overestimated how much i believe in mv.

    since you now believe in clinical trials, lets get down to business. earlier you referenced some youtube videos, a monavie sponsored study, and the mv site as proof that mv is so great.

    none of that is peer reviewed. none was published in a reputable medical journal.

    what about the quackwatch article i referenced

    http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/antioxidants.html

    the good doctor sited every one of his sources. most were from the new england journal of medicine. Do you not believe them? Shouldnt they have a little more weight then something on a youtube video or that was paid for by the person selling it? Also how is the nutritional content of mv vastly superior to v8? it should be for the price difference

  437. lattimore says:

    what company is quackwatch being influenced by that makes him skew all his results?

    in case you are wondering about the good docs bias you can check this

    http://www.quackwatch.org/00AboutQuackwatch/funding.html

  438. KingTut57 says:

    I still have two posts that are waiting approval. Also, I'm waiting to hear back from MV. Until then I'm done with this conversation.

  439. lattimore says:

    reload and come on back. make sure mv gives you all the good sources for their claims. remember and tell them they cant claim to cure or prevent any disaeses with their product or they might get another one of these

    http://www.fda.gov/cder/warn/cyber/2007/UTVokes.pdf

    and remember what candace said about all of these people getting in trouble for doing something real similar to this before.

  440. lattimore says:

    also ask them why,that if they dont approve of the testemonials why they are all over youtube and show up in the top results of searching for mv.

    try posting a song by prince on youtube and see how long he puts up with it. i know they're 2 different matters, but it would seem to reason that they know the fraudulent videos are there.

    also ask about how you are gonna get mega rich with most everyone else not making that much.

  441. Vogel says:

    == Sugar Content of Monavie ==

    Tut, your accusations that I made a false claim about the sugar in Monavie are disingenuous to say the least. I provided 2 different links to pictures of the bottle label (post #410) and they both clearly show that Monavie contains 4 g sugar per ounce. I have verified this by checking an actual bottle of Monavie that I saw with my own 2 eyes and it also said 4 g/oz sugar, and in addition the website below also confirms the 4 g/oz value - and there are several others.
    http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/for/747822773.html

    Clearly, Monavie, at least at one time in its history, contained 4 g/oz sugar.

    Although you have asserted that Monavie Active now contains only 3 g sugar per ounce, you haven't accounted at all for the curious discrepancy between my information and yours. I know my label pictures are not forgeries because I saw the same label on a bottle with my own 2 eyes. So obviously we have a situation where the composition and/or the label information were changed – i.e. Monavie had 4 g/oz sugar at some point, and the recipe was later altered. But if this is the case, it is clearly a mistake for you to say that I made a false claim. On the contrary, either you were ignorant of the fact that the composition had changed, or it was you that was being purposely deceptive.

    An honest and informed distributor would simply have acknowledged the formulation change and the date on which it took place, instead of acting as though that it never happened.

    == Labeling Discrepancies ==

    The discrepancy between labels merits further comment. Your label information lists lower amounts of sugar and higher amounts of vitamin C than mine, which confirms that the formulation was changed - in fact the company has already acknowledged at least one such formulation change:
    http://www.cldobbs.org/zencart/pub/TopFAQ.pdf
    http://jasonlaney.org/uploads/Graham_onMonavie.pdf

    But if Monavie is a fixed blend of 19 fruit juices, how can the amount of sugar suddenly decrease by 25% (from 4 g/oz to 3 g/oz) and the amount of vitamin C go up more than 10-fold (from 2% to 25% of the RDA)? Why would it go from listing no vitamin K at all to listing 12% RDA for vitamin K? This is the type of information that a curious, well-intentioned researcher would want to know (but a Monavie-selling automaton might not care too much about it).

    One logical explanation for the discrepancy is that the sugar, vitamin C and vitamin K in Monavie are additives rather than components of the fruit juices, and they simply altered the amount of additives in the recipe.

    == Does Monavie Contain Unlisted Additives? - Opti-Acai WIPO Patent Application ==

    In fact, if you look closely at Schauss's WIPO patent application for Opti-acai (a primary ingredient that is allegedly used in Monavie), it actually recommends the use of additives such as vitamin C (to provide color), sugar (to improve taste), and even artificial food dyes (to improve appearance) when the powder is used to make juice. See Section 0335 on page 51 (Methods of Acai Beverage Preparation) which states the following:

    "Because acai is low in sugar and vitamin C there is very little to prevent oxidation/fermentation. The presence of both sugar and vitamin C is recommended. The taste of pure acai is rather bland and the color is a very dark maroon. The addition of 1-2 tablespoons of sugar or other sweetener compliments the flavor nicely. The color can be made redder through the addition of vitamin C (an acid). The addition of red food color will also create a more appetizing or appealing appearance."
    http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/images4/PCT-PAGES/2004/412004/04084833/04084833.pdf

    In addition to strongly suggesting that Monavie contains various additives, this information is also extremely important because vitamin C is an antioxidant (a dirt-cheap one I might add) and if they are simply adding vitamin C to the product, this could easily account for any antioxidant benefits the product might provide (I emphasize "might" because Monavie has never been shown in any published study to contain or provide bioavailable antioxidants). As if there weren't already enough reasons to not waste $40 on Monavie, now we have the possibility that cheap added vitamin C is the only antioxidant it possesses in significant amounts.

    Notice also that the patent describes this freeze-dried acai (the same acai as is used in Monavie) as a "supplement" (see page 1), which seems to at least partially negate King Tut's assertion (post #424) that "MonaVie is NOT a dietary supplement" (notice Tut's use of all caps for emphasis). At the very least we know that Monavie contains an ingredient which the inventors refer to as a "dietary supplement", so it's disingenuous to make such a strong assertion to the contrary.

    == Did WIPO Reject the Opti-Acai Patent Application? ==

    It looks like WIPO rejected the Opti-acai patent application because, in their words "the descriptions, claims or drawings are so unclear that no meaningful opinion could be formed". They also pointed out that various claims in the application were not sufficiently novel to qualify for a patent...
    http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/images4/PATENTSCOPE/48/1e/ab/001eab.pdf

    ... and WIPO also notified the applicants in 2007 that their 2004 patent request was did not comply with WIPO rules 17.1(a) and/or 17.1(b).
    http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wads.jsp?IA=US2004008739&LANGUAGE=EN&ID=id00000005123853&VOL=71&DOC=00d90c&WO=04/084833&WEEK=25/2007&TYPE=A3&DOC_TYPE=IB304&PAGE=1

    == Protein vs. Amino Acids ==

    As Lattimore correctly pointed out, amino acids are not proteins; they are merely constituents (building blocks) of protein but they are entirely different chemical and nutritional entities. While acai is described as rich in protein, the Monavie label shows that it contains almost no protein at all. But it also doesn't mention anything about it containing essential or even non-essential amino acids, nor is their any other published information on amino acid amounts in Monavie. Any implication that Monavie is a good source of either protein OR amino acids is deceptive and misleading.

    == Conspiracy Theories ==

    My BS detector starts ringing immediately when I hear someone defending their juice or supplement by invoking conspiracy theories about how the pharmaceutical and medical establishments are trying to suppress products with legitimate therapeutic value. That's ridiculous, insulting to a huge worldwide community of highly educated and honest professionals, and the hallmark of a snakeoil sales pitch.

    == The Value of Antioxidants ==

    This debate about the value of antioxidants goes well beyond the scope of this forum, but suffice it to say that the results of clinical trials with antioxidant supplementation have been, for the most part, quite disappointing, and early enthusiasm over this experimental therapeutic approach has dampened considerably. Although scientists have established that free radicals can play a role in many diseases, supplementing with antioxidants, by and large, hasn't turned out to be very effective in treating or preventing anything. Most of the recent meta-analyses of published studies have shown little overall benefit. This is not because there is a vested corporate interest in suppressing antioxidant supplementation; far from it. The medical research community is just taking their lead from the best data that has been generated to date. I have been at ground level in this research field for close to 20 years and know what of I speak. We would all have loved to see antioxidants turn out to be a panacea, but it didn't happen and so we move on to other more "fruitful" possibilities (excuse the pun). The line of research is far from over but at this point it sure doesn't look like taking antioxidant supplements is going to solve any health problems.

    And just for the record, many big corporations make antioxidant supplements; e.g., Wyeth's Centrum, Bauch and Laumb's Ocu-Vite, etc.

    == Monavie Has No Published Research on Health Benefits or Anything Else ==

    I brought up the Monavie claim about "health benefits" a while back because I was surprised to see such an egregiously misleading statement in an official company document. I wish there was one distributor out there who had enough integrity to say, yeah you guys are right - it is misleading for Monavie to say that.

    Let me remind everyone that this is what Monavie's official website stated:

    "This scientific research confirms that by consuming the MonaVie products, you will see a noticeable benefit to your health".

    And let me remind you all again – there exists no published research on Monavie, let alone any research showing that the product has health benefits.

  442. Vogel says:

    Is anyone disputing the fact that 9 out of 10 Monavie distributors earned less than minimum wage? That's what the data in their disclosure statement shows. On average, 90% of distributors earned 13% less than the federal minimum hourly wage of $5.85.

  443. lattimore says:

    yea you slanderer. king tut is using some way out ancient egyptian car dealer math. it shows that we're wrong.

    it sounds better to him if only the bottom 78% make under min. wage.

    now the fact that 90% of the people involved AVERAGE an income under min wage...now thats just playing with the numbers.

  444. lattimore says:

    he's cool with the fact that 12% of the people avg a little under 7 an hour. just not the fact that if you take the average for the entire bottom 90% his math isnt quite as solid.

  445. Vogel says:

    I redid the calculations for the average hourly wage for the lower 90% of Monavie distributors. I realized that I forgot to weight the average based on the number of distributors listed at each level in the disclosure statement.

    The first 3 levels of the pyramid (which includes "Star 500", "Star" and "Distributor") comprise 90.4% (n=32075) of the total number of distributors (n=35471). Together they worked a total of 16,476,720 hours to generate $75,576,240 in gross income in one fiscal year. When calculated based on actual man-hours worked, the average hourly wage for this lower 90% tier of the pyramid comes out to $4.59. That's 22% below the Federal minimum wage of $5.85.

  446. Vogel says:

    Wow numbers are fun!

    Put another way, 99.98% of the company's distributors work a total of 19,111,404 hours to generate $195,727,332 in gross income in one fiscal year at an average hourly rate of $10.24 so that the top 6 people in the company can divvy up $18,340,101 amongst themselves

  447. lattimore says:

    i'm glad to see your 2 posts got posted tut.

    i'm all for everyone having their say.

    now we're getting down to the heart of the matter.

    I have already said that even if MonaVie had trials done, it would NOT be able to make any medical claims as it is NOT a medicine. Here is what it can do. When was the last time you ate a box of Cheerios? Do you remember the box saying that the product promotes a healthy heart? It does say something like this. Cheerios is a food not a medicine or supplement. So even though there are numerous studies proving the heart benefits of eating whole grains and Cheerios has whole grain in it, they CANNOT say that Cheerios prevents heart disease. Do you understand what I'm saying here?

    i hope there is enough there where you think i'm not taking you out of context. you have just said it is classified as a food. and can make no more claims than any other food. then why the high prices vs. other foods that can deliver the benefit at a substantially lower price?

    also

    now that you believe in clinical trials that have been peer reviewed and put into publications of merit, what about the studies the quackwatch article references? they at least put some serious doubt in the fact that antioxidants will do something. this makes the exorbatant price of mv even harder to swallow.

    just for gets and shiggles heres some cheerio info.

    http://www.cheerios.ca/en/nutrition.html

    their nutritional facts are fairly impressive. they only cost about 3.85 a box (lots of box sizes so i wont do the math, but you should be able to see that it is gonna come out way lowere per serving also)

    now as far as you saying that mv pays you back. remember those really low numbers vogel keeps churning out for us? those are gross. not groody or icky gross. pretax before any other selling expense gross. shouldnt this product be able to stand on its own merits? why does it have to involve the solicitation of friends and family to make it even think about getting near the cost per serving of other foods that seem equally as healthy?

  448. lattimore says:

    also about mv paying you back

    why work for below min. wage selling something when i can spend my time mowing yards and getting some exercise making waaay more. even if i wanted some mv, couldnt i make the money to afford it quicker doing something else....anything else?

  449. lattimore says:

    vogel

    your post #451 was great!!

    guess who said this:

    What would be wrong with me making enough money representing something I use and believe in myself to quit my job? I don't know about you but working for someone else on their conditions isn't very fun. I'd rather work with friend when I want where I want. You are a slave to your company and they pay you with thousandths of a percent of their revenues.

    its from post #270 for context

  450. Candace says:

    Vogel, thank you for post #418 where you provide a clear and concise list of the questions and or statements about MOnaVie that don't add up. Also thank you for your scientific subsequent replies. You are very knowledgeable on these topics and I appreciate the information you provide. Post #446 is outstanding and addresses the issues I was concerned with in a much more scientific way, thank you. The inconsistency in the labeling and then the fact that the nutritional information we are hearing from MonaVie themselves is contradictory are all things that make this "opportunity" add up to smoke and mirrors.

    Lattimore, I know you apologized for being sarcastic ( I think that's the word you used)but you have made some really well founded points and also provided us with some much needed comic relief. And you have hit on the truth, certainly. A person could go to work for "the man" (LOL) and come out much further ahead financially than 90% (or more) of MonaVie distributors.

    We musn't forget that as well as all the other amazing things that having a MLM business will bring you, it will also provide you with all the "tax breaks" that a small business is entitled to. Small topic, perhaps, but it is often stressed over and over to the prospect along with all of the other topics we've been discussing. Just one more "perk" to network marketing. But...if you're not purchasing support materials there won't be much to "write off". I just had to address this since it's not yet been discussed but in my experience is one of the "pluses" highly touted when recruiting a prospect.

    The great thing about (most) MLMs is the many many different ways there are to make money AND save money. At least that's how they present it.

    There are so many red flags to this company, to it's products, to how they conduct business, that the water (or some substance) just keeps getting deeper and deeper.

    I don't have the time to really research this in depth however....there have been allusions to (and a lawsuit from (SC)Amway against MonaVie stating such) that certain "leaders" in the MonaVie organization were "taken from (Sc)Amway and "placed" in that very high position with MonaVie. I dont know how much proof one could find on that topic, but consider this: Less than 1% of MonaVie distributors were paid out at the "Imperial Black Diamond" level. And, in fact, the income disclosure statement lists only one distributor reaching that level and being paid on that level. Exactly how long has Brig Hart bein involved with MonaVie? If I had the time I'd research that further. I hadn't thought too much about that until I read the wording on the (SC)Amway lawsuit against MonaVie and realized that's exactly what (SC)Amway believes has happened with Brig Hart and MonaVie. The allegation is that the company needs a figurehead, something to aspire to, someone for other to look at and say "hey, they did it, I can, too!" Good idea to bring aboard someone who has major motivational training and speaking experience and a HUGE distributor force to bring on and a LARGE circle of influence. Something to definitely research further and consider. I am not saying I know for sure that's what's happened, what I am saying is it bears further looking into.

    Ryan, your reply is coming up after this.

  451. Candace says:

    KingTut57,
    I keep calling you Ryan, but you've changed your screen name, so I will honor that. I apologize fr not realizing and doing so earlier.

    I don't know what to say to you, really. I read and re-read the links you provided in depth. Sadly, they ALL just leave me with more questions, certainly no answers, and some even contradict one another. You have to know that the links you provided pointing to MonaVie sponsored tests/trials/info are of no value to any of us. They only serve to give the distributors some basic info for prospects to be impressed by and the uninformed to believe. But they are certainly not proven or justified.

    When basic true factual information that can be verified by an outside credible source is not readily available, the only answer is that there is something to hide. Period.

    The inconsistencies in the labeling, and the formulation of MonaVie and the fact that THAT information is also not readily verifiable is also telling. The labels on the bottles we had in this house said only 2% Vitamin c, 2% iron. Listed was nothing about sodium or about preservatives, and certainly not the higher amount of vitamin c that you are showing on your label not the vitamin K.

    In a nutshell...it is impossible for the antioxidant content to be what MonaVie is "selling" people that it is, or that would be reflected in the nutritional label.

    Somewhere someone is not being honest. Imagine that.

    I read and re-read this link you provided:
    http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/2lg-7a.html

    I may have confused myself, but it looks to me like MonaVie is *very* much required to list these nutritional facts, and here's why:

    First of all...someone needs to decide and stick to an answer. Is MonaVie juice a "food", a "dietary supplement", or a "Medical food"? The FDA makes distinctions between these 3 categories (among others, but these are the 3 that MonaVie could fall into).

    On the chart titled "summary of exemption"
    MonaVie falls into at least one of these categories:*Manufactured by small businesses* falls under http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/cfr101-9.html

    *Food served in restaurants, etc. or delivered to homes ready for immediate consumption* http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/cfr101-9.html

    *Dietary supplements (must comply with 21 CFR 101.36) * http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/cfr101-9.html

    If I listed all of the info from these links, my post would be ginormous. Therefore, I will
    surmise what I have read in my own words, discussion about interpretation of these requirements is readily welcomed.

    It looks to me as if MonaVie is absolutely required to list the nutritional value on the label for a few reasons, but the biggest reason and what teh FTC will be watching for is "nutritional claims."
    Here is a quote from section j(i): "Such products that make claims that are based on values as packaged must provide nutrition information on an as packaged basis..."

    And a quote from section j(D) "Percent of Daily Value for protein, vitamins, and minerals shall be listed immediately below the heading "Percent Daily Value" "

    And another from section j(4) "(4) Foods that contain insignificant amounts of all of the nutrients and food components required to be included in the declaration of nutrition information under paragraph (c) of this section, ****Provided, That the food bears no nutrition claims or other nutrition information in any context on the label or in labeling or advertising. Claims or other nutrition information subject the food to the provisions of this section.**** An insignificant amount of a nutrient or food component shall be that amount that allows a declaration of zero in nutrition labeling, except that for total carbohydrate, dietary fiber, and protein, it shall be an amount that allows a declaration of "less than 1 gram." Examples of foods that are exempt under this paragraph include coffee beans (whole or ground), tea leaves, plain unsweetened instant coffee and tea, condiment-type dehydrated vegetables, flavor extracts, and food colors"

    Now that was very confusing but I read it to say that IF a company is making nutritional claims about it's "food product", then it must list the nutritional content. I have put 4 stars preceding and following that pertinent information.

    And no matter what, I have to say that this sentence literally jumped up and smacked me right between the eyes when I was on the MonaVie link you provided:
    "This scientific research confirms that by consuming the MonaVie products, you will see a noticeable benefit to your health". In fact, no research has ever been published showing that Monavie has health benefits." I am still in a bit of shock that MonaVie would so blatantly make an unsupported medical/health claim like this. And no, I am not mentioning it because anyone else did, I was struck by it before Vogel or anyone else posted about that statement.

    I am also bothered and concerned by other contradictory information within MonaVie's own support materials. Sometimes they say to take 1oz twice daily, other literature says 2 oz twice daily. Some literature refers to getting all your "fruit" servings for the day, while other MonaVie company literature states get all of your "fruit and vegetables" for the day.

    Which is it? fruits or fruits and vegies? 1oz or 2 oz? These may seem like little things, but these discrepancies are everywhere even within MOnaVie's own publications and website. A fact is a fact is a fact. Needs no embellishing or exaggerating. It simply is what it is and stands alone. In the MonaVie literature the "facts" keep changing. Horrible red flag.

    There are so many other things that I noticed while in the MonaVie link you provided but I cannot get off into them right now as I would like. I must say, tho, that I find it interesting and simultaneously revolting that in the video sample about the cost of MonaVie they compare MonaVie's cost to the costs of Cigarettes, coffee (namely Starbucks, wonder how long it will be til starbucks sues over that), and junk food. REALLY??? Monavie compares themselves to these horrible low quality items? Surely they could pick a better point of reference? I'm just saying...that's deplorable. If I were selling a 4 carat diamond with zero flaws and inclusions in it, I most certainly would NOT pick a cubic zirconia to compare it's looks to and justify the price difference!! If you expect people to believe that your product is the Rolls Royce of juices, you darn well better compare it to some other luxury type juices. I don't even know if that made sense or not, I am so disgusted with seeing that comparison. Here they compare this ultra expensive fruit juice that they can't even tell us for sure what's in it to cigarettes, coffee, & soda. What the heck?? Here's the link: http://www.blackdiamonduniversity.com/monavie-training-video-how-much.asp

    I will check back in later, I just don't have the time today to really discuss this in depth and pick apart all the little threads that are unraveling all over the place.

    KingTut57, I didn't see anything that furthered your goal of educating me about the pluses of MonaVie. I truly did not. I still feel that it is at best, shady. Definitely not on the up and up.

  452. Candace says:

    BTW, KingTut57, did you ever hear back on your email to MonaVie? Does it give any new information that we don't already have?

  453. lattimore says:

    i think we've all seen the mv video i like to harp on and on about. didnt somebody say that mv doesnt endorse the testemonial approach to selling? check out what black diamond university (probably very accredited univ.) linked to.

    http://www.monavie.com/bodine/WebcastMar22.html

    its not the whole one that youtube has, but it sure does have alot of talk about mv fixing geoff bodine.

  454. lattimore says:

    the site also has some videos by dr. andrea pennington. i looked at her website and guess what see happens to be a distributor for.

  455. lattimore says:

    she not see. need more super pills to overcome my inability to type

  456. Lazy Man says:

    Sorry about slow moderation guys. On a Sunday during a week where I'm on vacation, that's going to be the way the cookie crumbles. You can usually get around this by posting fewer links per comment and maybe limiting the overall comment size a bit (when you have a long one).

    I think there's always potential for bias and bad information. I think that was KingTut's point behind, "The point I'm making here is that I believe a clinical trial as much as you believe what MonaVie says about its products."

    The problem is that you know 100% that there's a bias from what MonaVie says. There's only a potential bias from clinical trials (surely not all clinical trials are 100% biased) and the peer review definitely keeps things grounded. If we just let any company say what it wants about it's product and give it the value of a clinical trial, we are in trouble.

    As Vogel said about the conspiracy theories in #446, there's no financial motive for someone to suppress a genuinely helpful product or procedure. If a company making cholesterol medication offers me 2 million to shut me up, it's not going to work, because I can easily make 2 BILLION if my product is better than theirs. And they'd have to pay off everyone 2 million as well. It's like inventing the next iPod, either Apple will buy it and use it, or you'll go to business yourself (or with Microsoft) and the product will get into the hands of the people.

    Lattimore, just to play Devil's Advocate here, mowing lawns isn't quite a good parallel here. For a vast majority of the time spent on my blog, mowing lawns would have made me much, much more money. However, over time this blog has grown enough to provide me with an income that would require quite a bit of mowing. This income occurs even when I was away on vacation like yesterday. In a lot of ways the business of MonaVie parallels the business growth curve of blogging. There are a few blogs that make a lot of money and a vast majority that would struggle around the minimum wage area.

    KingTut said, "The price claim is only true if you buy MV to drink and not distribute." Even if you buy MV to distribute, it seems like it's a better option for many people to just do a second job. I only see it being a good business for the less than 0.6% (or so) that are earning a solid full income with it. Of course, I think that I saw they work full time (maybe even more hours), so it's hard to say if that's really better than their job. So if you are not roughly the top 1 in 170 distributors can we saying that the price claim is true? If so, can we say that this applies to almost everyone?

    Food vs. Supplement
    The FDA requires the standard nutritional label, but it doesn't prohibit you from adding additional information. The parallel here is whey protein. Instead of "nutritional facts" it says "supplement facts" with all the information you'd expect there. It has 110 calories per scoop and contains proteins, fats, carbohydrates, sodium, potassium, calcium, etc.

    I'm looking at my bottle now and there are two other things of note:
    - In the facts box, it says that it has 9 grams of "super recovery blend" consisting of Creatine, Taurine, L-glutamine, etc...)
    - It has another box where it gives the "typical amino acid profile (millograms per 33g scoop)." For instance I can see that it contains approximately 988 mg of Serine.

    I don't see what is preventing MonaVie from adding anything extra that it has to it's label. Well, nothing other wanting to have a prettier bottle or not actually having these things in them.

  457. lattimore says:

    i understand and accept what you're saying about my mowing analogy.

    i'm using mowing the lawn for 3 reasons.

    1. the distributor time invested per week vs. pay is still ridiculous. i'd like to know how much the avg. mv distrib makes from those under them

    2. mowing the lawn has inherent health benefits (barring allergies and severe mechanical malfunction leading to dismemberment)

    3. its funny to say that the kid mowing my yard is making more money per time spent.

    i will give mv that there is potential for you to make money when you are not doing anything. i'm just looking at the fact that most dont. i believe you could be ariana huffington or some other super blogger quicker than you can find 30k people to buy and sell $40 fruit juice for you.

  458. Candace says:

    I don't know, Lazy Man, protein powders are obvious supplements while MonaVie I think falls into the "food" category.

    I think a good comparison, label wise, would be a juice with more than a few different fruits in it.
    For example:
    http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/mail/goodanswer/minute_maid.pdf

    Let's use #8 on the list, the mixed berry blend. I chose it as it has more than one fruit, and is 100% real fruit juice.
    This nutritional info took exactly 8 seconds to discover by typing my query in a google search.

  459. lattimore says:

    to clear up slightly muddled wording above (sorry) in my first point on the mowing analogy i was wanting to see how much of the bottom 90%'s income is from downline and how much is from retail. Also i would love to know what the average mv distrib. spends on overhead. the rest of the post was pretty much me making fun of mv

  460. Lazy Man says:

    I'm not sure where the line between food and supplement is then. I thought that food has significant caloric value. If that's the case whey protein is more of food than MonaVie (more calories per serving). Then I thought that a food is determined by it's ability to be consumed without additional products. However, EAS ready-to-drink boxes also have "supplement facts" instead of "nutritional facts" on their label.

    Maybe the EAS drink is a supplement because of the instructions of "Drink as a meal supplement" labeling. If that's the case, then I'd probably put MonaVie as a supplement as well, because I don't really see anyone replacing a meal with it.

    Anyway, I'm not sure if this on topic or not. I'm just really curious because the line has really been blurred where I'm not sure we can agree that MonaVie is a food.

  461. Candace says:

    Lazy Man, I will agree with you on your last post above this one. It is very confusing.

    And I agree that I don't know if this is really on topic or not anymore. It hurts my brain to even try to think the food vs. supplement thing through.

  462. Tina says:

    I'm going with the one that knows, this person lives in the country where it is made and only pays 6.00 for it why would you pay more.
    Omnia Vincit I'm with you on this one thanks for the real input.

    "Quoted below"

    Omnia Vincit Says:
    April 16th, 2008 at 8:21 am
    Hi,
    As a Brazilian and living in the Amazonas, wich is one of the biggest producers of Acai in Brazil. I can tell you Acai is good to ingest daily but as a food with inumerous Nutrients or more like a Snack, a very heavy Snack, it is eaten with Tapioca and very cold like Ice cream, it's delicious and Healthy. But as for the Price, it's ridiculous do Pay U$40,00, the cost of the Acai in the Region is like R$10,00 for about 2 litters.
    Just in case your wandering, it's about U$6,00.
    Love your Blog, have been reading for months now. Congrats.

  463. lattimore says:

    the line lazy man referenced got me thinking. it came from this post.

    But, about the V8 argument, I agree that label for label and price for price V8 wins. I drink it myself. The price claim is only true if you buy MV to drink and not distribute. You spreading the good word about V8 doesn't pay you back anything.

    mv was originally presented like this

    How do you figure it would be one of the most expensive foods. If you would just actually look into the product before you judge it that would be great. 4oz (daily recommended) will cost between $4 and $5 depending on how much you buy at a time. The thing is that those 4oz are equal in nutrients and antioxidants 13 servings of fruit. An apple is about $1/apple anymore. 13 apples times $1 is $13.

    it used to be a deal compared to everything. now its just a deal if you sell it too. v8 doesnt ask me to join a company where....

    "From the start I always say that MonaVie makes no medical claims. I also clearly state that if my new distributors want to make money it is going to take a lot of work, and to start will only produce pennies on the dollar."

  464. Lazy Man says:

    Good point lattimore. The only other thing that I'd add is that MonaVie has been billed as a replacement for the cost of fruit (i.e. drink MonaVie instead of buying fruit).

    Now it seems that at least some MonaVie drinkers are also adding V-8 to their diets. So now MonaVie is an additional cost to drinks like V-8. Thus, your food costs will go up unless you put in a lot of hard work (other people's words not mine) to mitigate that by selling the product.

  465. Vogel says:

    Monavie has to be an add-on to other beverages. Drinking 2-4 oz isn't even enough to quench one's thirst, and isn't thirst quenching one of the man reasons people drink juice in the first place?

  466. Candace says:

    I'm thinking vodka 8-)

  467. Vogel says:

    Hmmm...good point Candace...thirst quenching and a cocktail mixer.

    Monavie, it would appear, is technically a juice drink and, therefore, a food product. But it seems pretty clear that in most cases it is being positioned as a dietary supplement, and in the worst cases, as a drug.

    Monavie cannot make any legal health claims; this includes both implicit/explicit disease treatment/prevention/cure claims as well as the more innocuous "structure-function claims". An example of a structure-function claim would be if a product provided a significant amount of lycopene, then it could be advertised to promote cardiovascular wellness or heart health or something along those lines (the FDA issues a list of such allowable structure-function claims). If it were a good source of dietary fiber, then there are other structure-function claims that would be allowable on that basis.

    Monavie's label does not indicate that it contains significant amounts of any nutrient that would enable the producers to make legal structure-function claims. All it seems to have is a bit of vitamin C.

    The equivalency claims between a shot of Monavie and a specific number of servings of fruit are also inappropriate and legally prohibited (misleading advertising... FTC's jurisdiction). A 6-8 ounce serving of pure juice counts as one serving of fruit. Monavie, which is consumed at 2-4 ounces per serving, wouldn't even count as a single serving of fruit. The Monavie zealots try to argue that the equivalency claims are based on the amounts of antioxidants in Monavie; however, the FDA and FTC (and the medical/scientific community for that matter) do not recognize any legitimate equivalency based on antioxidant amounts alone. You cannot advertise that a product provides the equivalent of 5 servings of fruit just because it has 5 times the vitamin C of an apple.

  468. KingTut57 says:

    Vogel, Lattimore, Candace, LazyMan,

    I do appreciate all of your comments even if they aren't in the best of intentions toward me. Candace, you can call me Ryan or KingTut57, it doesn't matter. I changed because I noticed somebody else was already posting on other posts as Ryan. I wasn't hiding.

    Here is the deal. We can all sit and wait around for something to prove it's so great, but nothing ever will because any time something does, people will find one glitch and tear it down.

    I heard on the radio today some staggering facts about the health of our country. Upon already knowing that 96% of us will die of disease, it was very disturbing.

    So here I am, a very healthy young man who already makes good money just going for something. One of you pointed out that it is bad for MV to compare its cost to that of Cigarrettes and whatever else you said. They only say that to catch the attention of those who are spending hundreds of dollars every year on things that we know are bad for us. Why not quit that and try something else?

    I don't value money the same as most of you. I make it. I spend it. I might run out. I might make a lot. Who really knows? The thing is that there are more important things in life. As we are lying on our death beds after fighting a degenerative disease for the average 9 years people fight such diseases, money will be the last thing on my mind. I was once told that you will really know what you want in life if you can picture yourself on your death bed and think of what would be running through your mind. Or even beyond that see your own funeral and wonder if you will be content with people's memories of you.

    I'm not scared of death. I just have so much fun in life that I want it to go on as healthy and as long as possible.

    Apparently we are doing something wrong with our health. Our government can back and make claims for all the different kinds of foods supplements and food pyramids it wants to, but is it really working? Are people fatter than ever? I heard the other day the average American life expectancy decreased. Did you guys here that? After all we know and can do and we are starting to die faster? I also have read that the perfect human should die of old age somewhere between 120-140.

    Also, I hear people complain all day about the cost of medical care. Then later that day I walk outside and they are smoking a cig for dessert after their 2000 calorie meal.

    Why are fruits so good for us? I'm sure you would all agree, without me citing web pages that fruits and vegetables have been proven to improve health and prevent disease. Is it the sugar? We can get that anywhere. Is it the vitamins/minerals? Maybe. Is it something even smaller? Things like antioxidants and phytonutrients? More and more evidence is saying yes.

    I'm no expert. I hate citing other sources especially from the web. Not only is it nearly impossible to know the credibility but you can pretty much find any information you want and in your favor. I have tried and it doesn't matter. Any honest reporting/trial will have a downside to the findings and people will pick those apart.

    So, here is what I'm doing. I have found something that provides us with the recommended antioxidants. It comes from 19 different fruits that provide a wide array of antioxidants and phytonutrients that we couldn't get by going to the local market. Why are some areas of the world less susceptible to certain disease and other parts more so to the same disease? Nobody knows this answer but my logic tells me its from what we consume. Why not get a mixture of fruits from all over the world? They all have to have some benefit that I can't get here in good old Montana.

    Here is my favorite definition of insanity. "Doing something over and over exactly the same way while expecting a different outcome." How long have people known its good to eat fruits? How long have people been taking vitamins and minerals? How long have we known that too much fat and sugar is bad? We have known this stuff long enough to know that maybe those aren't the answers if we are all dying prematurely.

    Many of the people I have got involved, the first actually, are the unhealthiest of the people I know. Maybe MonaVie will be all it was cracked up to be and maybe not. But, at least I got someone to start thinking about health and to start moving in that direction. And if anything else, by hanging out with me and my wife more, maybe they will take on a healthier lifestyle and save you and me some health insurance dollars down the road.

    I do hope you know that I intentionally played the 90% less than minimum wage game with you for a reason. We were both right, right? Funny. I used to think numbers couldn't lie. They can't but they can definitely bend the truth. I did this to show you that no matter what numbers a trial finds, the outcomes can be manipulated one way or the other. I'm not saying this always happens but I promise you it does.

    So no matter what you say about the lack of facts proving MV is a miracle, I'm going to keep believing in it, pushing it and trying to open other people up to something new. At least they weren't insane by doing what everyone else is doing.

    Imagine it now. What if phytonutrients are proven in a few years to be the ultimate disease fighter/preventer? It's not hurting me to drink it. It's $4 per day. You could find that much on the street in coins if you looked hard enough.

    And about all the labeling. I read it one way, the way I wanted to and you read it the other way. "You must list dietary ingredients without RDIs or DRVs in the "Supplement Facts" panel for dietary supplements. You are not permitted to list these ingredients in the "Nutrition Facts" panel for foods." This is from that labeling site I posted earlier. I believe it was the first rule. If MonaVie was a supplement its label would read Supplement Facts. But, it's NOT (I caplocked this word for you Vogel), so it can only list what is allowed under Nutrition Facts. This to me is very obvious but I can understand with all the different terminology how it can be read different.

    Anyways, there is no point to this discussion anymore. You are asking me to provide facts that don't exist. It is an idea. There are facts behind the idea. And I'm sure more and more facts will emerge. Then we will know more. I'm certain MonaVie is better for me than it is bad for me, so until we get these "facts" backing (my side) or disproving (your side) I'm just going for it. The company is so new and from my research on clinical trials they often time take years to complete. Especially when the things being measured are long term things like cancers, heart disease and the such.

    Worst case for me is I'm out $4 a day which I probably would have spent on other unhealthy diet choices (beer, chips, candy, ice cream...I can eat a half gallon at a time which is about $4 right?). But at least I took action that was different than the old average that wasn't working.

    Anyways, I do appreciate all of your hard work and comments trying to disuade me. The thing is that the only way that would happen is if there were facts on your side disproving MV. No trials have done so yet. So until then I'm on "my side of the fence" as LazyMan would say.

    I do hope that if you truly feel that MonaVie is doing injustice to the people of our country that you will stand up for what you believe and make something happen. I am. I am standing up and saying MonaVie has a chance to do what nothing we have found yet can do. If you truly feel how you do against MonaVie, not taking action would be criminal on your part. So, my challenge for you is if you can prove so much against MV as a product and a business stand up and take them down. You will be doing America a favor if you are right! And believe me I would be the first person to say, "Candace, Vogel, Lattimore and LazyMan, you were right and I was wrong." This does not mean I would regret my decision.

    And once again, if you do, worst case I'm out $4 per day. But that $4 per day is at least taking an action towards what I believe.

    I don't care what you think about me as a person, because we don't really know each other. I do hope you know I have had nothing but good intentions on this posting and have done my best to change your minds. But if there was only a fifth person arguing against me, I would get that fifth one as the law of sales is 1 in 5.

    Vogel, you talk to me like you are superior. Lattimore, you talk to me in sarcasm which is masking your own insecurities. Candace, you talk to me like I can't make my own choices (like a mother figure). And contrary to what I first thought, LazyMan, you, I believe, do keep an open mind to all the presented arguments (the only person I believe that does so out of you 4).

    Either way, it's been real, it's been fun, but it wasn't real fun!

    For my last post on this issue here is the email I received from MonaVie today (sorry about the format, there were a couple of charts she included that didn't copy over very well). I don't know if I'm supposed to forward her message but what the hell. Oh, and LazyMan, let me know when you read and evaluate the book Comparative Guide to Nutritional Supplements because no matter what you think about the business model, USANA has hands down the best vitamin/mineral supplement available without a prescription or even with one for that matter.

    Except for spaces deletions between paragraphs this email has not been edited and I will forward it to anybodys email if you want it. If you want to contact me, my email address is [deleted by Editor]. Also, here is one last source I found. It looks to be put together buy a doctor who is somehow involved with MonaVie but there are many different refereces for all of you to keep yourself busy with on the last page.
    http://www.encognitive.com/files/Promoting%20Wellness%20with%20Phytonutrients.pdf

    Thanks!

    Dear Ryan,

    Thank you for your email. MonaVie has chosen not to disclose the amount of ingredients in its formula. The product's formula is a trade secret and is one of the company's greatest intellectual assets protected under U.S. law. By sharing this information, it is easier for scrupulous companies to knock-off or copy our formula. We are protecting our distributor's ability to sell a truly unique and proprietary product.

    We can tell you, however, that the ingredients appear on the label in order by amount from most to least. This means that because acai is the first ingredient listed on the label, there is more acai in the MonaVie products than any other single ingredient.

    The 18 additional fruits have been added to MonaVie's premier acai blend for the purpose of adding to the product's nutritional spectrum to provide you with a variety of antioxidants.

    The following is the nutritional information for 4 ounces of MonaVie. Some things are not significant in just 1 ounce of Juice. Also, there are some vitamins and minerals that have not been tested for. Please remember that it is the phytonutrients that are what makes the MonaVie juice so valuable. People sometimes mistakenly believe phytonutrients are vitamins and/or minerals. In fact, they are pigments, or more precisely, the biologically active constituents of pigments. How can they benefit you? In the last few years, phytonutrients have been getting greater attention, as more and more research uncovers just how powerful these nutrients are for our health. They are potent antioxidants that can neutralize free radical damage. Free radicals are highly reactive chemical substances that, if left unchecked, can lead to premature aging and poor health.

    Clinical trials are now revealing that phytonutrients can enhance the strength of the immune system, and may play a role in promoting good health and longevity. Other studies have shown that the phytonutrients in blueberries and bilberries slow brain aging and maintain healthy vision in vivo.

    It has long been known that plant-based nutrients are among the most beneficial of foods to consume a great deal of and phytonutrients may hold the key to explaining why this is so.

    MonaVie is a blend of fruits which have been chosen for their nutritional content. Acai, our star ingredient, is one of the world's most powerful antioxidants. The benefits of antioxidants have been documented thousands of times over, but these benefits cannot be added to a Nutrition Facts or panel. There is no RDI or Reference Daily Value for phytonutrients and MonaVie is packed-full of them.

    Nutrition Information 4 ounces Daily (Original & Active)
    Calories: 120
    Calories from Fat: 20
    TotalFat: 2 g, 3%*
    Cholesterol: 0 mg, 0%*
    Potassium: 220 mg, 6%*
    Sodium: 20 mg, 1%
    Total Carbohydrate: 24 g, 8%*
    DietaryFiber: 3g, 12%*
    Sugars: 12 g
    Protein: 1 g, 2%*
    Calcium: 25 mg, 3%*
    VitaminA: 125 IU, 3%*
    VitaminC: 60 mg, 100%*
    VitaminE: 1.1 IU 5%
    Iron: 1.5 mg, 8%*
    VitaminK: 38 mcg, 48%*
    Polyphenols (Antioxidant): 280 mg**
    Glucosamine: ~1,000 to 1,200 mg (Active only)

    *Percent Daily Value based on a 2,000 calorie diet.

    Not a significant source of saturated fat, or trans fat

    **Percent Daily Value not established.

    Four ounces of MonaVie has an approximate ORAC value of 4,000 to 5,000 units. Health experts currently recommend consuming 5,000 ORAC units per day for optimal antioxidant protection.

    By consuming four ounces, you receive the approximate ORAC equivalent of 5 to 13 servings of commonly eaten fruit and vegetables. Please understand this refers to the antioxidant value (ORAC) and not to specific vitamins, minerals or other nutrients your body needs. Different fruits and vegetables have different ORAC values. If you drink 4 ounces of MonaVie it could be comprabale to eating 5 fruits or vegetables with high ORAC values or 13 with lower ORAC vales.

    [Editor's note: deleted ORAC values for various foods. We've link to them in the past if interested.]

    *Servings of fruits based upon USDA's guidelines as presented in the 5-A-Day Program. ORAC values derived from following source: Xianli Wu et al. Lipophilic and hydrophilic antioxidant capacities of common foods in the United States. J. Agric. Food Chem. 2004, 52, 4026-4037.

    Protein quality is usually ranked by comparing it to the amino acid profile of an egg, which is regarded as ideal. Animal proteins, such as meat, milk and cheese, which are closer to an egg's profile are ranked higher in quality than protein from plant sources.

    The Acai berry is unique, because it has all essential amino acids—making it a complete protein. The protein found in acai is considered high-quality, even though it is from a plant.

    Protein quality, however, does not directly refer to the amount of protein. While acai is a complete protein, meaning it has all essential amino acids, the actual amount of protein per serving is less than one gram per ounce; therefore, it states "0 g" of protein on the product's nutritional facts panel. Four ounces on the other hand of MonaVie juice provides one gram of protein.

    Others companies may use a freeze drying process, but the proprietary freeze dried process used by MonaVie and the claims related to its antioxidant and immune benefits are patent pending. This means a patent has been filed to protect the intellectual properties of the unique freeze drying process used and the claims associated with it.

    I hope this information helps. Please let me know if I can assist you in any other way.

    Regards,
    Sarah Brown

    Product Specialist

  469. Lazy Man says:

    [Note: Ryan's e-mail has been deleted contact me if you are interested and I'll pass it on]

    As expected the 13 fruit claim refers to ORAC values. It does not replace the need to actually eat 13 fruits as suggested in earlier comments. It's worth noting that this kind of logic would lead one to say that a small amount of dark chocolate is equal to 20 fruits.

    "If you truly feel how you do against MonaVie, not taking action would be criminal on your part." Consider this website my action. I do not have the financial resources or the time to fight people who have millions of dollars. Even if we did take MonaVie down, the people behind it would probably come back with another berry and another drink. If you find me a lawyer willing to work for free, I'll give him/her whatever help I can reasonably give.

    Another way to look at the 18 fruits added to MonaVie is that it can dilute the amount of acai. If there were only two ingredients and acai was the first, you'd know it was at 50%. Because there are more ingredients, I have confidence that it's about 6%, but that's all I know. If acai is so good, I'd rather have fewer fruits so that I know I'm getting more acai.

    The way you say that it's only $4 a day tells me that you are minimizing the importance of it. It's $120 a month, more than my cable, Internet, and phone bills... combined.

    This is also money that can be wisely used to retire early, save up for a dream vacation, or help a good friend or relative through some financial difficulty. These are the things that I imagine I'll think about on my death bed.

    I understand that you are trying something different. The thing that I don't understand is why MonaVie is that thing. You could try a multivitamin and V8 juice. There are dozens of other drinks that are just as likely to work as MonaVie.

  470. Rod Cook says:

    As far as the contents of Monavie's Drink don't forget that it also has Celadrin in for which Monavie got sued for $2.5 Billion dollars....settlement made amount ?
    See
    http://www.mlmwatchdog.com/mlm_amway_quixtar_mona_vie_monavie_lawsuit.html

  471. lattimore says:

    har har har insecurities. i've not once had to mention my education, past sports activities, job, income, wonderlic score(haha), or other accreditations.

    if it makes you feel better you can imagine i'm a fat homeless man that leaves in a cardboard box with a stolen laptop. i keep the box near a starbucks for free wifi.

    i did however present some "cold hard facts" which you refuse to recognize.

    your ad hominem attacks on everyone who is presenting you with "cold hard facts" is telling.

    the freudian slip in your last post says it all

    The product's formula is a trade secret and is one of the company's greatest intellectual assets protected under U.S. law. By sharing this information, it is easier for scrupulous companies to knock-off or copy our formula.

    read that real close and have a laugh like i did.

  472. lattimore says:

    of course mv should be on the lookout for scrupulous people.

  473. Candace says:

    Yes, and Hi there, Rod.
    We did see that lawsuit and that info. It is unclear whether or not MonaVie is still including celadrin in their juice.

    This is a large part of "our" problem with MonaVie LLC, the lack of disclosure of ingredients or at least percentages of ingredients. We just honestly *do* *not* *know* what the heck is in a bottle o Monavie.

    I prefer to know what I am putting into my (and my family's) body.

  474. Candace says:

    Lattimore #475, you and I both saw that!!
    It jumped right out at me.
    There are a few other glaring interesting items in that email, but that one you mentioned takes the cake!

    Personally I love the "greatest intellectual assets" line.

    There are so many other things that are just not right about the MonaVie "business opportunity", but the very basic problem is that the product they are peddling does not appear to have the ingredients in it that they claim it does and it certainly cannot or has not been proven that it "works miracles".

  475. Vogel says:

    It's interesting that Monavie won't list all of this nutritional information on the bottle label or in any official company sales materials, but they'll e-mail over a list of nutritional information when someone like King Tut writes to the company. I ain't buying it. How come this list shows vitamin A and vitamin E when the label does not list these nutrients? I noticed also that the company rep makes a claim about the ORAC of Monavie being equivalent to 5-13 servings of fruit or vegetables, yet that ORAC is mentioned nowhere.

  476. Candace says:

    Ryan,

    Thanks for taking the time to reply and sharing the email from MonaVie with us.

    I won't debate you or argue with you or "try" to get you to see things "my way" anymore. I do have to say tho...I suppose I can see how you would think I am "acting like I am your mother", and I will take that as a compliment. Mothers are there to protect, encourage, enlighten, and teach. That is exactly what I was attempting to do, and not just for you, but for whomever may come across this blog.

    However; were I to truly treat you like I were your Mother...you'd be in some serious doo-doo. I have tried to be sensitive and considerate in how I have told you the facts as we know them. I have wanted to yell at you and give you short succinct replies and even send you a cyber slap or two, but I try very very hard to remember that you literally *don't know what you don't know*. I try to keep very close in my thoughts that you are star struck and having your dreams and wishes stroked perhaps hourly by your MLM friends and upline. They are all going to tell you what *they* want you to hear, and you, acting on the very best of intentions, are going to "share" that info over and over as if it were gospel. And be convinced yourself that it is.

    Ryan, I wish you health and happiness, and clarity of thought and full discovery before you're in too deep when you realize the truth behind the sca..."business" and it costs you financially, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, & physically. This is not a "I want to be right" thing...this IS a "I don't want to see you get hurt, or the tens of thousands get hurt that most likely will".

    I certainly have nothing to gain by discouraging or supporting anyone "getting into" MonaVie. It's just that it is blatantly obvious that there are serious issues/discrepancies/falsehoods with the juice or the product, and the company.

    The product would never stand alone and sell itself at this price or without the ingredients being disclosed. When an MLM is based on something that cannot sustain itself without a renewable "sales force" consuming a required amount of the product themselves, with none to very little actual retailing going on, the MLM meets "trouble signs" for the FTC.

    Typical MLM rhetoric....believe me, believe me, believe ME....don't listen to the evidence, don't listen to your loser friends with no dreams or goals, don't listen to ANYONE who doesn't want to help you "make your dream come true!!" At the end of the day, all they have is their ability to inspire confidence (hence the word CON)that the lies they are telling you are true.

    BTW, my husband and I spent some time last night watching the Brig Hart training videos and promotional videos. What a riot!! It's exactly, word for word at some points, the SAME rhetoric they spieled when they were in (SC)Amway!! I watched the little Mona-Bots run around saying the same things the little (SC)Am-Bots used to say!!! But...MonaVie is so *different* than any other MLM!! What a joke!

  477. Candace says:

    Yes, that email from MonaVie to Ryan is literally screaming out to be dissected. There are so many things that don't add up.

  478. KingTut57 says:

    Vogel, Lattimore, and Candace,
    I know I said I was done with this conversation but it seems you all read only what you WANTED to read. You all make good points, but they were pretty much all discussed if my whole post was read. Also, I was hoping that the discussion would turn to the phytonutrients side of the nutrition as I think it has been clear that is what MV is trying to provide.

    LazyMan has taken his action against MonaVie, what are you doing beside patting each other on the back and telling each other how smart you are?

    Vogel,
    You said, "I noticed also that the company rep makes a claim about the ORAC of Monavie being equivalent to 5-13 servings of fruit or vegetables, yet that ORAC is mentioned nowhere." (Notice your quotes are in the wrong place which could be misleading for new readers.) It should read, MV rep said, "By consuming four ounces, you receive the approximate ORAC equivalent of 5 to 13 servings of commonly eaten fruit and vegetables." And your response should have been, "I read this but failed to see the company mention the ORAC of its juice."

    The email message to me said, "By consuming four ounces, you receive the approximate ORAC equivalent of 5 to 13 servings of commonly eaten fruit and vegetables."

    And it also said, "Four ounces of MonaVie has an approximate ORAC value of 4,000 to 5,000 units. Health experts currently recommend consuming 5,000 ORAC units per day for optimal antioxidant protection."

    So, it was mentioned. It also broke down a variety of different fruits and veggies you would need to eat to achieve a similar ORAC value. And this ORAC value does not seem to be too much even according to the article saying MonaVie was a scam because 25,000 units of ORAC at a time would be a waste. Where did MV ever say it had that much?

    Lattimore,
    I am sure I have my own levels of insecurity, I know I do, and I'm working on them. Part of that is admitting that I have insecurities. Who doesn't? I am willing to admit that. When I wrote that stuff about my intelligence I was showing you that you were being unfair by attacking my intelligence without knowing me whatsoever. I don't care if you do think/say I lack intelligence, but it was just one more thing you were writing that was your own opinion and could be construed by readers as the truth.

    Candace,
    You said "There are so many other things that are just not right about the MonaVie "business opportunity", but the very basic problem is that the product they are peddling does not appear to have the ingredients in it that they claim it does and it certainly cannot or has not been proven that it "works miracles".

    If you read the email I received it cleared up a couple of things. As LazyMan noticed the juice is not to replace fruit as part of a diet. It is to give more of the best things we find in fruit, antioxidants and phytonutrients, which can't all be found on a nutrition label. MV rep said, "Please understand this refers to the antioxidant value (ORAC) and not to specific vitamins, minerals or other nutrients your body needs."

    Also, I have never said MonaVie "works miracles." You are fabricating that on your own accord and putting words in my mouth.

    Vogel again,
    You said, "How come this list shows vitamin A and vitamin E when the label does not list these nutrients?" You must have misread when the MV rep said, "Some things are not significant in just 1 ounce of Juice."

    I think the rep made it very clear it is not MonaVie's intention to replace a healthy intake of vitamins and minerals. She also made it very clear that MV is trying to provide us with phytonutrients from different fruits that come from all over the world with a wide array of rich pigments that provide a higher level and broader spectrum of phytonutrients than any one of us could provide ourselves by going to the store.

    LazyMan,
    My earlier arguments that you can replace your fruits with MonaVie was wrong and I apologize for making that point. It was my own misunderstanding of the product. I'm re-educating both my upline and downline that this is not the way to represent the product. Thank you for pushing this point.

    All of you are busy little researchers and I'm curious what you will find to refute the references sourced by the article I post just preceding the email I received. I will repost it here.
    http://www.encognitive.com/files/Promoting%20Wellness%20with%20Phytonutrients.pdf

    I would trust in your arguments more if at any one point just one of you would acknowledge when I make a good point. I know I have made at least one. I am acknowledging when I'm wrong or when you make a noticeable point. These are essential parts to a discussion. If there weren't good points on either side this discussion would have died many posts ago. This is not me being insecure, this is me wanting to have a real discussion where everyone listens and respects that others point of view.

  479. Candace says:

    For the record, Ryan, I read EVERY thing you have linked to and posted and much much more.

    And I NEVER said you said the juice "works miracles". Perhaps YOU need to read more carefully? Never once have I put words in your mouth, I don't have to, they are all here for us to read for ourselves. What I said was "there is no proof that the juice works miracles". And I'll add this: Even though MonaVie is allowing their distributors to make such claims.

  480. Lazy Man says:

    One might argue that Vogel, Lattimore, and Candace's action is making the information available that they already have. I started the topic but they've more than carried it with excellent research (much better than I have done).

    KingTut, let's not get too much into a misplaced quotation mark. I think the point that Vogel was making is that the ORAC is not on the label anywhere. I still deem ORAC to be irrelevant since we found that other foods like dark chocolate have huge amounts of ORAC for pennies. I have not seen anyone dispute this.

    Thanks for admitting that were wrong about the fruit equivalency. I think this is one of the issues that I have MLM when the results are subjective. It reminds me of Chinese whispers or the Telephone Game as I know it. If someone in the upline distorts a fact even a little bit (like the protein of an egg or the fruit equivalency), the bad information gets spread around. There may be dozens of people who signed up for MonaVie just from the previous comment that it can replace fruit in their diets. If they don't check back here and keep reading they'll be continuing to spread the rumor.

    You've made some good points, KingTut. For example, you are right that fruit is healthy and there are a lot of health problems in country. You are also right when you say that not enough people are doing anything to make a difference. The problem is that since everyone agrees on these things, it's not a point that helps the MonaVie argument any.

  481. lattimore says:

    king tut has great personal knowledge of my insecurities. thats how he is able to say i have them. even if he has them too. i should be berated for them and his are just like everyone elses.

    of course i cant comment on his inability to grasp the fact that 90% and 9 out of 10 are the same thing. tut demonstrated that he wasnt able to do the math. also tut was touting his great achievements well before he showed his math prowess.

    too much.

    remember when tut told lazyman

    What would be wrong with me making enough money representing something I use and believe in myself to quit my job? I don't know about you but working for someone else on their conditions isn't very fun. I'd rather work with friend when I want where I want. You are a slave to your company and they pay you with thousandths of a percent of their revenues.

    he didnt know what lazyman does for a living. but if we look at the financial disclosures for MV, i do know someone who is "a slave to your company and they pay you with thousandths of a percent of their revenues"

    please tut, show me the fault in the numerous trials published in the NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE or other scholarly publications on the uncertainty of antioxidant supplementation. i discredit your reports because they are either funded by mv or have not been peer reviewed and published in something like the nejm.

    while you're at it why dont you explain your ever changing reasons behind sponsoring MV. Remember a couple posts back...

    But, about the V8 argument, I agree that label for label and price for price V8 wins. I drink it myself. The price claim is only true if you buy MV to drink and not distribute. You spreading the good word about V8 doesn't pay you back anything.

    mv was originally presented like this

    How do you figure it would be one of the most expensive foods. If you would just actually look into the product before you judge it that would be great. 4oz (daily recommended) will cost between $4 and $5 depending on how much you buy at a time. The thing is that those 4oz are equal in nutrients and antioxidants 13 servings of fruit. An apple is about $1/apple anymore. 13 apples times $1 is $13.

    it used to be a deal compared to everything. now its just a deal if you sell it too. v8 doesnt ask me to join a company where... .

    "From the start I always say that MonaVie makes no medical claims. I also clearly state that if my new distributors want to make money it is going to take a lot of work, and to start will only produce pennies on the dollar."

    please explain. i would hate to take you out of context.

    your argument shifts every time it is debunked. i have said from the get go that mv is overpriced. not worth it. when i learned that the payscale is so ridiculous i added that in there too. i will give mv that it probably is as good as some fruit juices. the fact is that all of the fruit juices it is comparable to are much, much, cheaper.

    MV is run by some people who have gotten in trouble with the fda before for making wild claims about their product before. is that not a red flag? not even a little one?

    the sad truth is that MV is marketed as something that will make you much healthier. thats how they try to get away with charging an arm and a leg for fruit juice. it is not proven to be worth its price when compared to other alternatives. thats why the MV distributor will always try to sign you up as distributor to get it cheaper. the chances of making any sizable amount of money with mv is extremely slim. only the few at the top of this pyramid make the real money.

    sorry for the rambling but there are so many obvious flaws in this company and its product.

  482. Lazy Man says:

    I've looked at the PDF that KingTut sent. I generally hate looking at PDFs since they slow down my computer. There should always be a simple HTML version requiring no plugin if it's a helpful document that doesn't require PDF capabilities (like this one). This particular article would have been better suited for HTML, so that one could click on the references and check them out.

    I guess I'll ignore the Celadrin (though it was the most interesting thing to me), because of the lawsuit and notice that MonaVie doesn't have it anymore. Glucosamine has been discussed here, so I would like to mention that you can get a year supply Glucosamine & Chondroitin at Amazon for under $60.

    It was fun to read about the person promoting her book on Oprah and we've seen the Matt Lauer thing before. Bringing up these names in a paper that seems to be trying to be scientific in nature is a detriment to it.

    It seems like the MonaVie argument rests largely on phytonutrients, since we've eliminated vitamins, minerals, and protein, etc. How do we measure these against the ones that in fruit? I think that ORAC isn't the answer (again, the dark chocolate clause). Is there something like ORAC? Do we even know if the phytonutrients survive the freeze-drying, preservative-adding process? If so, how?

    The last paragraph of the article makes a wide case for fruit, which is what many of us have been saying for some time.

  483. Candace says:

    MonaVie's Policies and procedures: http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:RQBvXqjiuPcJ:www.monavie.com/pdf/us/policies_procedures.pdf+monavie+policies+and+procedures&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a

    or

    http://tinyurl.com/6fozpz

    in case the link breaks when I post.

    Section 5.3 & 5.4 address what restraints MonaVie LLC places on it's distributors.

    "5 .3 – DiSTRiBUToR WeBSiTeS
    if a Distributor desires to utilize an internet web page to
    promote their business, they may do so through Mona-
    Vie's official website or through MonaVie approved repli-
    cating websites after entering into the Website license
    agreement . a copy of the agreement can be obtained
    upon written request to [email protected] .com .
    Alternatively, Distributors who have achieved the rank of
    Black Diamond may develop their own web pages. How-
    ever, any Black Diamond who does so: (a) must use only
    text found on the company's official website; (b) may
    not supplement the content of their website with text from
    any source other than the company; (c) must register
    their site(s) with the compliance department and receive
    written permission from compliance prior to the site's
    public availability . after initial approval of the website is
    obtained, the Distributor may not change or modify its
    website without the express written consent of the com-
    pany . Websites that are owned, operated, or managed
    by a Distributor may not redirect a viewer to any other
    website, regardless of to- or from-page content . Failure
    to comply may result in disciplinary action up to and
    including termination of a Distributorship .
    5 .4 – BloGS, cHaT RooMS, Social neTWoRKS,
    online aUcTionS, anD oTHeR online FoRUMS
    With the exception of the websites allowed by Section
    5 .3, Distributors shall not use any other website, includ-
    ing but not limited to, online blogs, chat rooms, social
    networks, online auction sites, video websites, or any
    other online forum to market, sell, advertise, promote, or
    discuss MonaVie's products or services, or the MonaVie
    opportunity."

    And section 5.12 is where MonaVie spells out that each distributor is liable for any and all health benefit or medical claims they make, including personal testimonials: "5 .12 – UnaUTHoRiZeD claiMS anD acTionS
    5 .12 .1 indemnification
    a Distributor is fully responsible for all of their verbal
    and written statements made regarding MonaVie
    products, services, and the Marketing and Com-
    pensation Plan which are not expressly contained
    in official MonaVie materials . Distributors agree to
    indemnify MonaVie and MonaVie's directors, offi-
    cers, employees, and agents, and hold them harm-
    less from any and all liability including judgments,
    civil penalties, refunds, attorney fees, court costs, or
    lost business incurred by MonaVie as a result of the
    Distributor's unauthorized representations or actions .
    This provision shall survive the termination of the
    Distributor agreement .
    5 .12 .2 Product claims
    no claims (which include personal testimonials) as to
    therapeutic, curative, or beneficial properties of any
    products offered by MonaVie may be made except
    those contained in official MonaVie literature . in
    particular, no Distributor may make any claim that
    MonaVie products are useful in the cure, treatment,
    diagnosis, mitigation, or prevention of any diseases. Such statements can be perceived as medical or drug
    claims . not only do such claims violate MonaVie
    policies, but they potentially violate federal and state
    laws and regulations, including the federal Food,
    Drug, and cosmetic act and Federal Trade commis-
    sion act."

    Since we can see by a simple google search that there are hundreds of MonaVie distributors making such claims, it stands to reason that the FTC sees them as well. My personal thoughts on this is that they are not interested in "going after the little guy", but are content with waiting until someone of significant income/power/position with MonaVie violates this contract (with MonaVie) and law (the FTC). At which point it is reasonable to think that the FTC or FDA or both can/will step in and make a much larger statement by going after the "bigger pin" and perhaps MonaVie at the same time.

    Distributors need to know and understand that MonaVie will not be there to "back" them if the FTC sues the distributor for fraudulent or misleading health claims. It is spelled out in section 5.12

    Apparently this includes distributor's comments on this and any online blog. read section 5.4 thoroughly.
    Interesting, no?

    MonaVie's not enforcing those rules. It appears the "rules" are in place to cover MonaVie's backside when distributors make those claims, and for no other reason.

  484. KingTut57 says:

    Lattimore,
    What are you talking about?

    "king tut has great personal knowledge of my insecurities. thats how he is able to say i have them. even if he has them too. i should be berated for them and his are just like everyone elses." I never said mine were any less so than yours. You are making stuff up.

    Also you say, "of course i cant comment on his inability to grasp the fact that 90% and 9 out of 10 are the same thing. tut demonstrated that he wasnt able to do the math." This is a ridiculous comment. I showed you the math and you AGREED with me that there are different ways to project it. My math was broken down more so than Vogel's. His was a much larger generalization which equates to a much larger margin of error. You are unbelievable for how much you keep bringing this up. If his interpretation goes one step broader than we would say that 100% of the people make 100% of the money. Obviously! Why is MV any different than from the rest of America? Don't the top 2-3% make 90% of the money? This is not new knowledge and the reason I have let this topic go. Let it go. You are right Lat that many people don't make that much money in MonaVie. And about ME being a slave to MV. Really? In 3 weeks we made star 500. Next week we will make Star 1000. We are pacing Bronze Executive in about one month. I'm working the business about 8-10 hours per week. If we stay at bronze forever, that would be an extra $20k per year, working 10 hours a week. This equates to over $38 per hour. Yes I know this is my experience only. The difference between me and someone else who isn't making anything is that they aren't committed like I am. Remember my insanity comment. You are trying to make the same point over and over the same way and you are expecting a different result.

    And you still are taking things completely out of context. The V8 argument is label for label ounce for ounce. What is not on the label and CAN'T be on the label is what I'm talking about. Not only that but 2 oz (within recommendation) of Monavie per day would cost about $2.50. How much is a V8. At least a buck right? My point about MV versus V8 had nothing to do with antioxidant power or levels of phytonutrients which is where I think MV will win.

    You are right, many people don't make that much from MonaVie. That is their choice. Most of those 90% aren't even completely dedicated to the business side of MV. I know, because I work with that every day. You do realize that signing up to be a distributor qualifies you for much better prices right? Many people become distributors for that reason only.

    And so what if people try the business and find they aren't good at it or don't want to do it. Then they stop. They get off autoship and they are out $39.

    LazyMan,
    Before you pay $60 for glucosamine from a company that is most likely proven to have products that have no bioavailability you should do as I requested and find the Comparative Guide to Nutritional Supplements. You would love it. 3rd party research. Lots of information, most of it scary how bad some products are.

    What is worse, MV saying it MIGHT be good for longevity (nobody has proven it does not) and health or someone selling you a pill and telling you that there is glucosamine in it when there isn't? I will try and find the study but one study found that 1/3 glucosamine products contained 0 glucosamine.

    You have all been good at finding facts that back why MonaVie hasn't been proven YET to be a miracle food. What you don't have is proof that MonaVie doesn't work. Let's turn that around. Find me that clinical trial. Find me that peer reviewed publication. You know...the one that says, "MonaVie has been undoubtedly PROVEN that it has no health benefits." You find me that information and not your speculative articles on why it MIGHT not be good. You have blamed me for not providing evidence that MonaVie is some miracle but you can't do the same on the other side.

    We elimanated proteins but not the amino acids found in MonaVie that, as we discussed, are essential building blocks for protein.

    If they phytonutrients did not make it through the freeze-drying process then Acai would not carry an ORAC score of over 1000.

  485. lattimore says:

    I do hope that if you truly feel that MonaVie is doing injustice to the people of our country that you will stand up for what you believe and make something happen. I am. I am standing up and saying MonaVie has a chance to do what nothing we have found yet can do. If you truly feel how you do against MonaVie, not taking action would be criminal on your part. So, my challenge for you is if you can prove so much against MV as a product and a business stand up and take them down. You will be doing America a favor if you are right! And believe me I would be the first person to say, "Candace, Vogel, Lattimore and LazyMan, you were right and I was wrong." This does not mean I would regret my decision.

    lazyman answered the top part of this rather well. the last sentence is what interests me. its spoken like a true snake oil saleman.

    here's another tut quote:

    Does anybody on here take responsibility for their own actions? If I bought something and it was a "hoax" to me, whos fault is it? The salesman? The manufacturer/bottler? God? My other friends for not stopping me? My parents for not teaching me? My schools for not teaching me? The government for allowing such a scam? Some CEO sitting in the Bahamas? NOPE. It's my own damn fault. I wrote the check. I believed the BS.

    looks like someone believes if they can sell something at any cost it really doesnt matter if it works or not. please put into context if it is taken out of said context

  486. Candace says:

    Drat, had intended to post this link in the last post, it is the reason for previous posting.

    This is a copy of the lawsuit filed by Quixtar against MonaVie. I had said I would post it earlier when I found the link again.
    What is interesting about it is that Quixtar alludes to MonaVie recruiting and taking their (quixtar's) head distributors. Then the lawsuit goes on to reference MonaVie's policies and procedures as well as some direct quotes from Brig Hart himself about the medical benefits of MonaVie and an example of Brig Hart extracting the same or similar claims from a distributor. Blatant violations of MonaVie's policies and the FTC's requirements. Took me a little while to find an HTML version of this instead of the PDF.

    http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:GP8P4nnYR0sJ:www.amquix.info/pdfs/monavie/2-08-cv-00209-db-02.pdf+when+did+brig+hart+join+MonaVie&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=54&gl=us&client=firefox-a

  487. Lazy Man says:

    Kingtut, I trust the Kirkland name (Costco's brand). I have gotten their products before and they always exceed my expectations.

    I looked up the Comparative Guide to Nutritional Supplements and most one-star person pointed out the bias with USANA. There are claims like, "masquerades as research."

    There are a number of other reviews that are positive, but I think we are going to run into the same bias. The author seems affiliated with USANA and positive reviews may be coming from people who are in USANA or pretending not to be. Anyway, it's off-topic here and we should discuss offline.

  488. Candace says:

    Ryan, you're missing the entire point.
    The burden of proof lies with MonaVie.
    They and their distributors are claiming that MonaVie has health and medical benefits.

    There is not research proving such.

    MonaVie makes the claims, and charges a big price for the luxury of using this juice that has so many amazing qualities, now the burden of proof lies with them and you.
    Not me.
    Not Lattimore.
    Not Vogel.
    Not Lazy Man.

    Because you or the company you represent cannot prove the claims they are making, does not mean that it is up to the rest of the population to prove you and MonaVie wrong.
    That's a way of diverting the issue at hand.

    There is nothing, anywhere, that proves that this juice "heals" or "cures" anything.

    There is nothing, anywhere that proves even what is IN the juice. It is certainly not reflected on the label, which it is required to be whether the juice is a food or a supplement, the company is required to list the nutritional or supplemental values on the label.

    You want US to prove that "the juice doesn't work". We're not the ones selling people on an idea that has no basis in proven theory or fact. We're not the ones trying to build a business on this lack of information. We have nothing that we need to prove.

    Can you imagine...
    Big Pharma: "We have this new drug that will make people grow a third eye in their forehead, it's great! Now they can literally keep one eye on the kids while also watching their favorite shows."

    FDA: "Wonderful! Now show us your independent double blind peer reviewed clinical trials and studies, we can't wait to see them!"

    Big Pharma: "oh, no, Mr. FDA, we don't have to prove anything to you. You need to prove to US that it doesn't make people grow a 3rd eye."

    It doesn't work that way, Ryan.

  489. lattimore says:

    all right we'll slow it down for you

    "king tut has great personal knowledge of my insecurities. thats how he is able to say i have them. even if he has them too. i should be berated for them and his are just like everyone elses." I never said mine were any less so than yours.

    you constantly alluded to me covering up an insecurity with sarcasm. you dont know me either. but you say its oh so horrible to talk about your ignorance without knowing you.

    lets get back to the subject.

    as far as the money goes...

    Why is MV any different than from the rest of America? Don't the top 2-3% make 90% of the money?

    earlier you made the implication that MV doesnt work like that

    What would be wrong with me making enough money representing something I use and believe in myself to quit my job? I don't know about you but working for someone else on their conditions isn't very fun. I'd rather work with friend when I want where I want. You are a slave to your company and they pay you with thousandths of a percent of their revenues.

    you said that berating lazyman. those are your words not mine.

    you still havent refuted the articles i posted, nor have you given me any solid evidence that MV is any more potent than v8

    from now on i will say that 78% make less than min wage. followed by 12% how make less than a manager at mcdonalds. i hope this will make you happy

  490. lattimore says:

    here's a good one to check out.

    http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/reprint/297/8/842?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=antioxidants&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT

    now i know you're all saying "the journal of the American medical association are all bush league hacks", but give it a read.

    here's the conclusion if you don't want to read it.

    Conclusions

    Treatment with beta carotene, vitamin A, and vitamin E may increase mortality. The potential roles of vitamin C and selenium on mortality need further study.

  491. lattimore says:

    in the name of fairness i must restate the mv earnings. 78% make less than min. the next 12% make less than a fast food fry cook.

    source
    http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes352011.htm#nat

  492. lattimore says:

    candace
    i enjoyed the the post on how mv doesnt enforce its own policy. of course some people probably won't see anything wrong with that :)

    i dont know if thats mv's patent app. but it sure looks like it. you are ruthless when you get on the trail.

  493. Candace says:

    Lattimore, yes, aren't their policies interesting? They definitely spell out what's ok and what's not...but do nothing about it.

    Personal opinion on that: It's all well and good as long as it's making money for Dallin Larsen and perhaps a few other people. But when the FTC comes in to spank some hands, it'll be all about "the distributors said that, not MonaVie!!"

    Section 5.12.1 lays out the liability for the distributors pretty clearly. I would imagine that each new distributor is required to sign these papers in which they indemnify MonaVie, agreeing that they (the distributor) will be liable in every way the court deems necessary, and that MonaVie will have zero responsibility.

    But I wonder how many people really understand exactly what that means? I wonder how many new distributors even read that or realize what they've agreed to?

    It's those super pills of yours, they make my brain humm and my surfin' fingers fly! If you think I'm ruthless now, wait til I get a hold of your beat-carotene pills. Tell Barry to get a move on!

    In all seriousness, I did find another pending patent application by Schauss which can be seen here:
    http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=schauss&s2=%22freeze+dried%22&OS=schauss+AND+%22freeze+dried%22&RS=schauss+AND+%22freeze+dried%22

    What I don't know is how to tell if/when it gets approved and how long the process typically takes.

    What is specifically interesting about this and why I posted it is this: MonaVie refuses to disclose it's ingredients or even the percentages of the ingredients, or the nutritional value (and prove it) of said ingredients, claiming the pending patent as one reason, but here are the pending patents for everyone to view.

  494. lattimore says:

    candace

    i'm not sure on how long it takes on the patent. the patent makes talk about curing disease. i'm not sure but wouldnt that make them have to revamp their business to conform to medicinal standards if it ever gets accepted. it would probably get them some extra FDA scrutiny also. can you mlm drugs?

    side note: if you look for the COMPARATIVE GUIDE TO NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS on the internet it almost exclusively comes up on sites that are selling or talking about some sort of mlm health product. its almost like it was made for them

  495. KingTut57 says:

    What health claims in a human body have I made about MonaVie?

    LazyMan, you said "Kingtut, I trust the Kirkland name (Costco's brand). I have gotten their products before and they always exceed my expectations." How do they exceed your expectations?

    We all agree that it is wrong for people to make illegal/false claims about a product. That point is way behind us.

  496. lattimore says:

    here's a link about 3 or the comparative guides expert doctors

    Dr. Julian Whitaker
    http://www.quackwatch.org/search/webglimpse.cgi?othersite=&ID=2&query=whitaker
    Dr. Earl Mindell,
    http://www.quackwatch.org/search/webglimpse.cgi?othersite=&ID=2&query=mindell
    Dr. Michael Murray
    http://www.ncahf.org/nl/1995/7-8.html

    national council against health care fraud is a pretty cool group of people, i believe they are also affiliated with quackwatch.

    http://www.ncahf.org/

  497. lattimore says:

    ryan

    any comments on 3 of the doctors from the COMPARATIVE GUIDE TO NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS being put on the ncahf's list of quacks for having ties to the supplement industry.

  498. lattimore says:

    here's an article about Bernadean University and their premier alum a Dr. Richard Passwater (no i didnt make that name up)

    http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/Nonrecorg/bernadean.html

    Passwater is also one of the doctors who collaborated on the comparative guide

    aint that a pisser ( i had to )

  499. lattimore says:

    here it goes again. the more i keep shaking this tree, the more nuts that fall out. next is a phyllis balch cnc. she is the 6th out of 7 experts form the comparative guide i've found to have a questionable past.

    http://www.quackwatch.org/02ConsumerProtection/FDAActions/global.html

  500. Lazy Man says:

    The point is that nothing is being done about those who do it. That's still valid until there's evidence that MonaVie is willing to take action.

    I view Kirkland products as a generic store-brand (since they are Costco's store brand). As such, I just look for the basics out of such products. Then I try them and they are really good. Consumer Reports has rated the Kirkland brand of items really high as well.

    I went to Costco today and 190 of the same pills that I mentioned before were $23. So for under $50, you get over a year's worth pills.

  501. lattimore says:

    oh well i guess doc. #7, a dr. ray strand, is also maybe a little too biased to be writing something like the comparative review.

    http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_U/threadview?m=tm&bn=19109&tid=22542&mid=22542&tof=5&so=E&frt=2

    Dr. Ray Strand is on USANA's medical advisory board and his wife is a USANA distributor.

    aint that a richard passwater :(

  502. Lazy Man says:

    Just for comparison today, I went and got some Hersey's Cacao Reserve. It's 65% cacao (listed on the label). Five pieces (a cost of 55 cents since I got 4 servings for $2.20) is 38 grams. Looking at several sites I estimate the ORAC value of those 38 grams to be 6916. This assumes a raw cacao score of 28,000 (which a few sites claim. The .gov site only provides raw cocoa powder data).

    I also went and got the V8-fusion with acai juice. Interestingly it was about the same cost as the chocolate, $2.20. At 6 servings, it's 36 cents per 8 ounce glass. It claims on the label that it's equal to one fruit and one vegetable, so must have some kind of testing proving so.

    The combination of these two products, which make a pretty sweet desert, is about $0.91. I'm not suggesting that they are the same since MonaVie won't label like V8 and Hersheys, but one could imagine that they are comparable (and that the ORAC value of the combination is higher for 1/4th the cost).

  503. lattimore says:

    lazyman,

    imagine the price if you bought in bulk from costco's or some such.

  504. KingTut57 says:

    I found some third party information for you. I think IF what MonaVie is saying is true about what is in their product, than their juice has extremely high levels of something that the USDA is recommending.

    This article is from the USDA. The very last line is "For now, it appears that an effective strategy for reducing risk of cancer and heart disease is to increase consumption of phytonutrient-rich foods including fruits, vegetables, grains and teas."
    http://www.ars.usda.gov/Aboutus/docs.htm?docid=4142

    So the USDA finds it prudent to consume more phytonutrients. Now this next post is from MonaVie, so don't freak out on me, but IF this message is true, MV is providing a lot of these phytonutrients that are being recommended by our government. It's not proof that it works, but it is proof that the government recommends it for the above reasons.
    "There are 25,000 known phytonutrients in MonaVie." Quote is from this MonaVie response to someone elses questions. http://www.rodeogroup.com/ToolsFolder/MonaVie_NutritionalContent.pdfs questions.

    And, if you refer back to the post of the email I received from MonaVie, the juice contains 280mg of polyphenols. This is many times the amount of polyphenols given to test subjects in the USDA study posted above. They were given "...approximately 30 mg per day or more...".

    Similar information with a few differences at the end.
    http://www.rodeogroup.com/ToolsFolder/MonaVie_Vitamins_Minerals.pdf

    It looks to me that MonaVie is not shy about the fact that it is holding some information back. Every new thing I read from them states that at this time the said information can not be given. So, when it is given, maybe that will help. If they were really hiding something why would they continuously comment on the fact that they are holding something back?

    LazyMan,
    I do get the point about dark chocolate. Got it a long time ago. I never got into that discussion because I don't know what antioxidants/phytonutrients are in dark chocolate. My logic tells me that antioxidants/phytonutrients from many different kinds of fruits from all of the world would provide a wider spectrum of the phytonutrients that our government has told us we should consume. Remember, this is not a fact, but my reasoning why MV is superior to eating dark chocolate.

    I don't understand what you mean by "really good" in the following sentence your wrote in post #505. "I view Kirkland products as a generic store-brand (since they are Costco's store brand). As such, I just look for the basics out of such products. Then I try them and they are really good."

    What do you mean by really good? Good flavor? Do they make you stronger, more energetic, or maybe happier? I don't get what you mean by really good. Please explain in more detail.

    Dr. Ray Strand is on USANA's board. This does not take away from the superior work he has done in the field of nutrition.

  505. KingTut57 says:

    LazyMan,
    Here is a quote from the following article talking about why a wide spectrum of sources of phytonutrients is important.
    "Dr. Egan further notes, "To his credit, Dr. Houston repeatedly and correctly points out that the evidence for benefit is much stronger when multiple foods and nutraceuticals are considered together rather than as isolated components."
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3987/is_20070507/ai_n19179450

  506. KingTut57 says:

    http://digestivehealthorg.com/?page_id=37

    This site looks to be providing a synopsis for many different studies that are out there. I have not read them all but I thought it would be good information.

  507. KingTut57 says:

    This site looks to be unbiased and has links to many other studies.
    http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2007/07/25/phytonutrients_healthy_foods_prevent_cancer.htm

    I think this article points out very well that we need more fruits/vegetables than even the government recommends.
    http://www.aolhealth.com/medical-myths/phytonutrients-prevention-in-a-plant

  508. Lazy Man says:

    By "really good", I mean that the Kirkland products generally exceed expectations. Depending on the product it might mean taste good (tuna) or ability to work (laundry detergent). When it applies to various products, I can't be specific and have it apply to all of them, so I just say that they are in my (and Consumer Reports' in many cases) "really good" in various ways.

    "I never got into that discussion because I don't know what antioxidants/phytonutrients are in dark chocolate." That's kind of the point. We don't know what's in MonaVie either. I can look at my dark chocolate and see that it is 65% cacao. For some of the health benefits see wikipedia's cocoa entry.

    Maybe they are different phytonutrients, but I can't seem to figure it out since MonaVie doesn't really give us more information on it.

    I also don't know how we compare the phytonutrients in MonaVie vs. the ones in V8's acai blend.

    If you want to say that phytonutrients are great, I might buy that argument. It goes hand-in-hand with the "fruit is good" argument. It's still up to MonaVie to prove it's phytonutrients is a better value for the dollar over V8's phytonutrients. Or has this been shown and I missed it?

  509. KingTut57 says:

    Just a quick link to V8 Acai Blend nutrition label. Looks like it has more sugar, calories, sodium and quite a similar vitamin makeup. I'm NOT saying it is bad by any means. I'm looking more into the phytonutrient content and will post it when I can find it.
    http://www.v8juice.com/fusion.aspx?ProductID=120827

  510. Lazy Man says:

    MonaVie comes in at between 3 and 4 grams of sugar per ounce (depending on which bottle you seem to be looking at). And it might even be rounded to the nearest gram on the label (like the protein). That puts it at between 24 and 32 grams of sugar per 8 ounces... V8 comes in at 26. I think it's a tough call to say that V8 has more sugar.

    I will grant you 30 calories and 70 micrograms of sodium are more than MonaVie. However we talking about a very small amount... 1.5% of your calories (2000 calorie diet), and about 3% of the recommended sodium per day (2400 mg). I would say that's quite similar.

    On the other hand, the vitamin make-up doesn't appear to quite as similar. From this label it looks like 4oz only gives you 16% of vitamin C (vs. 100% for V8). I note that MonaVie has 4X more iron as well, something that I'd rather not supplement. I don't see any potassium listed in MonaVie.

    From the labels you can see pluses and negatives to each. Can we agree that they are pretty minuscule (unless we have a way to compare phytonutrient content for both and there's a difference there)?

  511. lattimore says:

    you chide me for taking one sentence and using it for proof. here are the preceding sentences to the one you quoted

    What is the Present Status of the Art of Phytonutrients Research?

    Population studies have linked fruit and vegetable consumption with lowering the risk for chronic diseases including specific cancers and heart disease. However, media and consumer interest in phytonutrients and functional foods is far ahead of established proof that documents the health benefits of these foods or food components for humans. Phytonutrients research is experiencing remarkable growth. Hopefully, more specific information on phytonutrient consumption and human health will be forthcoming in the near future.

    they also say that people hocking products are doing so without solid proof. they are hoping to do more studies to show their viability.

    they said nothing of going to the wide corneres of the earth to find phytonutrients it just said fruits, veggies, grains and teas. they made no mention of our ravaged food supply and that we most use amazon superfood.

    on a side note i'm glad we've moved from the power of the mv business model, to the orac value of mv, to the superior price you can get mv at by selling it also, to the phytonutrient content of mv.

    your constantly shifting points make the value of mv all the more clear.

  512. KingTut57 says:

    "From the labels you can see pluses and negatives to each. Can we agree that they are pretty minuscule (unless we have a way to compare phytonutrient content for both and there's a difference there)?"

    I agree that the differences are minor if not negligible. I am going to email MV again as to why the label has changed. Every bottle I have seen lists MV as having 3g sugar per ounce, 25% Vitamin C per ounce, 12% vitamin K per ounce and 2% iron per ounce. I will forward the response as to why the label has changed. The only thing I can think of because they haven't changed the ingredients is they adjusted the portion amounts of the ingredients.

  513. lattimore says:

    the part from the earlier post that i think needs more attention is

    However, media and consumer interest in phytonutrients and functional foods is far ahead of established proof that documents the health benefits of these foods or food components for humans. Phytonutrients research is experiencing remarkable growth. Hopefully, more specific information on phytonutrient consumption and human health will be forthcoming in the near future.

    i'm not going to debate the worth of phytonutrients because they likely are beneficial to health (though the article you posted says there needs to be more research to be sure). but i will continue to state that mv is completely overpriced. v8 discloses what is in their product and sells it for a fraction of mv's exorbitant price. when can we see some proof that mv is worth its outrageous price. right now it looks like mv is in a neck and neck race with a product that costs a fraction of mv. it seems with the extreme price difference there would be an advantage that is easily demonstrated

  514. lattimore says:

    hey tut i see you like dr. strand.

    wouldnt his postition with usana make him a bad person to write an objective review!?!?

    what about the 6 other hacks that were the experts for your comparative guide.

    i would especially like you to explain away the doctor who got is degree from an unaccredited degree mill. or maybe you can explain mindell's herb bible.

    do any of the articles i posted about the doctors on the "good book" you referenced raise any red flags for you?

  515. KingTut57 says:

    Lattimore,
    At this time I'm looking into V8 nutrition facts. V8 Fusion Acai Blend's Nutrition Label is very similar to MonaVies. You say, "v8 discloses what is in their product..." I find the disclosures very similar. The one difference is in the email I received from MV is that in one ounce MV contains 70mg of polyphenols (one example of a phytonutrient). I have looked and looked and can find no similar information from V8. So, I have emailed them to see if they claim to have any different levels of phytonutrients, and if so how much.

    I'm still researching the Comparative Guide issue. I do know that this book neither received or gave any money to any company listed within it. It says so on the front disclosure page.

    Yes, you are right that the USDA thinks more research on the benefits on phytonutrients is necessary. I don't know if there is any food product where they would say, "We've done enough research and no more is needed." I think the line at the end recommending the consumption of more phytonutrient rich foods is the most important line on that page. But, this is just my opinion.

  516. Lazy Man says:

    On the V8 front, I'd also add that there is a V8-Fusion Light that has less than half the calories of the regular version. It's still listed as being equivalent to a serving of fruit AND vegetables. Not sure how they qualify for this, but MonaVie might want to look into doing the same.

    Still don't know about the phytonutrients on either, just making the point about the option for the lower calorie one (if that is really a true concern).

  517. lattimore says:

    please research passwater's credentials. please tell me how if strand and his wife are both making money from usana they can be unbiased.

    usda doesn't say this about every food

    However, media and consumer interest in phytonutrients and functional foods is far ahead of established proof that documents the health benefits of these foods or food components for humans.

    i believe this line applies directly to MV and its stupidly high price. they said to eat fruits and veggies. the above line was to warn consumers about people like you.

  518. KingTut57 says:

    Lattimore,
    People like me? I use the product myself. I'm not ripping someone off on juice and not believing in it myself. Would that mean I'm ripping myself off since the person who sponsored us is no longer active and not making any money off of me?

    Since apparently the government telling us to eat fruits and vegetables for decades now is working so well. (Notice I have dropped to your level and started using sarcasm to communicate). Did anybody disagree with me that last year the average life expectancy of Americans went down? How about the 96% of us that are dying of disease? Eating 4 or 5 of the same fruits consistently isn't working. Consuming phytonutrients from 19 different fruits at once hasn't been proven to work either, but it least it doesn't have decades of bad health saying it doesn't work.

    Do you think IF MV has the best phytonutrients and antioxidants on the market that it is a bad thing that people are paying $4 a day for it. Maybe then they will at least consume it. I'm getting nutrients in people who wouldn't otherwise get them. I'm doing what I believe is right. What are you doing about your beliefs Lattimore? Talking smack to someone through the internet and not doing anything to stop this company that you think is so bad for every reason out there. Go to the USDA website or quack site and submit a report of fraud. If you are so sure or yourself you really should. If I was as sure as you about this I wouldn't just be talking to one person about it on some meaningless, random (no offense LazyMan) website.

    Maybe I will turn out not to be right about MV, but at least I'm trying to do something different since the same old thing isn't working. And if that is the case I will move on trying something else and learning as much as I can about health and wellness. What are you doing to make a difference?

    How backwards is it that the majority of us wait for something bad to happen to react. Why don't we be the proactive ones before disease catches up to us?

  519. lattimore says:

    ryan/tut

    you have proven that you will say anything to try and prove that MV is the best thing around. I've been calling BS on this from the get go. Here are a few examples of where you have made some very questionable statements

    1. "The thing is that those 4oz are equal in nutrients and antioxidants 13 servings of fruit." really, prove it

    2. "Antioxidants have been proven to benefit health" no they haven't

    3. "It makes up approximately 40% of Mona Vie" referring to acai. prove it

    4. "You are a slave to your company and they pay you with thousandths of a percent of their revenues." suggesting that mv doesnt work this way

    5. " I have been told and have seen on MonaVie training material that the Acai content in its juice is approximately 40%. I have been looking for this online and have yet to find it. I don't have a scanner." do yo still stand by the 40% claim? this statement makes it seem like you have hardcopy right there proving it (unless you surf the internet with a scanner or something)

    6. "I would say that the reason that you don't see Vitamin A and E on the label is because these they can be found in so many other foods that we all eat quite commonly" get real why would anything list them then? (i know you're gonna talk about quadrupling the dosage and then you'll see some e and a)

    7. "It's a juice loaded with nutrients that we can't get from our nutrient depleted fruits and veggies" this statement is proof pending

    8. ""MonaVie is proven to be no better than our non-organic fruit." Your quote here is blatant slander"" please prove that mv is better

    9. "Now you are going to tell me that it has been "proven" that too much antioxidants is a waste" actually reputable studies find that it might increase mortality. http://pubs.ama-assn.org/media/2007j/0227.dtl#4

    10. "buy the book called the Comparative Guide to Nutritional Supplements. It is a complete guide to like about 1500 different vitamin supplements on the market. It grades them all based on 18 different factors. It is a study done by numerous Canadian and American doctors that have no affiliation with any of the products" LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE

    11. "If you ran a company as big as MonaVie would you be able to control or even know of everything that has been told to your customers?" maybe that would notice some of the top 5 responses to their name on google.

    12. "It is filled with all kinds of other antioxidants and phytonutrients that aren't put on a food label" if they're good for you, one would think mv would list them.

    13. ""This scientific research confirms that by consuming the MonaVie products, you will see a noticeable benefit to your health". This is not a false claim. Antioxidants have been proven to benefit health and MonaVie has a good antioxidant value. That is all it was saying."" if its proven,show us some proof. good peer reviewed proof is all we want. proof otherwise has been shown ( http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/antioxidants.html )

    14. you said
    "Mona Vie will never be able to have medical studies reported on it because it is not a medicine and by law can't say such things as it will prolong your life or it will relieve joint pain"
    but then you say
    "Also, Active contains Glucosamine which has been CLINICALLY PROVEN to strengthen and even repair damaged joints." ( it hasn't, see http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/glucosamine.html)

  520. lattimore says:

    i showed one reference on this one but here's another.

    ryan says

    "Mona Vie will never be able to have medical studies reported on it because it is not a medicine and by law can't say such things as it will prolong your life or it will relieve joint pain"

    but ryan forgot that he said

    ... oh and don't forget to try and squeeze in that glucosamine supplement within that $1 to help keep the pain out of the knees you (I don't mean you specifically LazyMan) have been on for your employer that is making all the money while the people below him/her are making less and so on... wait a minute... that sounds like a pyramid... quit now!!! Run!!!

    stop the presses, that last one was a twofer.

    see the part where ryan is talking about the pay.

    i guess that slipped his mind when he said.

    Obviously! Why is MV any different than from the rest of America? Don't the top 2-3% make 90% of the money?

    the first statement kinda tells a different story than the second.

  521. lattimore says:

    i love your lack of addressing the issue with facts to show your juice does something

    since apparently the government telling us to eat fruits and vegetables for decades now is working so well. (Notice I have dropped to your level and started using sarcasm to communicate). Did anybody disagree with me that last year the average life expectancy of Americans went down? How about the 96% of us that are dying of disease? Eating 4 or 5 of the same fruits consistently isn't working. Consuming phytonutrients from 19 different fruits at once hasn't been proven to work either, but it least it doesn't have decades of bad health saying it doesn't work.

    eating a turd isn't proven either. maybe you should try. I've got some for $40 a piece. they have all the nutrients your body couldn't get the first time. they are just as proven as mv. or you could try turd active with peanuts but its $45.

    continue to attack the critics and continue to fail to produce evidence for your super juice. it makes my point all the more clear.

    and i'm doing my little part by letting anybody who reads this know that you are absolutely full of it. maybe even full of it active, i dont know

  522. lattimore says:

    remember the burden of proof lies with mv. they are the ones selling a juice that so far hasnt been proven superior to fruit juice 1/10th of its price.

  523. lattimore says:

    ryan says

    Would that mean I'm ripping myself off since the person who sponsored us is no longer active and not making any money off of me?

    lattimore asks

    why would someone leave such a great opportunity for wealth and health???

  524. lattimore says:

    ryan asks

    Do you think IF MV has the best phytonutrients and antioxidants on the market that it is a bad thing that people are paying $4 a day for it?

    lattimore asks

    is there even a syllable of that sentence proven? I dont believe it is. MV went from unproven to the best on the market!!!!

  525. lattimore says:

    ryan says:

    I'm getting nutrients in people who wouldn't otherwise get them

    lattimore responds:

    so far you have only proved that you are supplying a v8's amount of nutrients for $40. this does not really seem that humanitarian to me.

  526. lattimore says:

    ryan says,

    Consuming phytonutrients from 19 different fruits at once hasn't been proven to work either, but it least it doesn't have decades of bad health saying it doesn't work.

    lattimore says

    tisk tisk. are you saying we lived longer decades ago or that we are on a several decade decline? that's gonna be hard to prove. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Life_expectancy_1950-2005.svg

    you are hiding behind the guise of improving health to make money.

  527. lattimore says:

    another humdinger from ryan

    How about the 96% of us that are dying of disease?

    Gee whiz we aren't all gonna get mauled by bears. some of us take my super pills. how many diseases do you think make up that 96%? Do think MV is gonna prevent them all?

    before you answer remember what you said earlier

    "We can go around and around about this but there will NEVER be a statement on any FOOD that says this product can cure/prevent a disease. If that is what you are looking for than you are chasing a dream."

  528. Candace says:

    Lattimore, nice find on the NCAHF. Some interesting information there to be sure.

    Can't comment too much on the rest of the chatter. It appears that we are at a stalemate for getting the answers we need to the questions we have asked. Hopefully MonaVie comes out soon with some research (that's not biased and conducted properly as to be reliable) that can "prove" what they and their distributors are saying. Until then, I still respectfully have to say that I think it's a typical MLM. They *may* (remains to be seen) have a good product, but the way in which it is marketed, the history of the founders, and the reputation of the major pins are all too much to overlook. Lack of scientific evidence and people making unfounded and illegal claims has me still placing MonaVie in the "scam" classification, personal opinion only, of course.

  529. Vogel says:

    It was announced yesterday that the Fed minimum wage was raised to $6.55 and will be raised again to $7.25 next year. That makes the Monavie "opportunity" look even less attractive. As of now, the lower 90% of distributors earn an average hourly wage ($4.59) 30% below the federal minimum, and by next year, that will be down to 37%.
    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iqMQv-gAMJfuCFhm21NCvHoV6CEQD9246P801

  530. LTinCali says:

    Lazy Man: I have been reading throught some of the recent posts here on MV and I noticed that you had some concerns about the label. One question you posted that I did not see an answer to was regarding Potassium. I just pulled the label information and it clearly shows Potassium – 55mgs.

    As for the reason the label was changed. I did hear at one of our meetings that the company added a higher concentration of Acai to the formulation but I plan to find out in writing about that claim.

    The reason that the company does not disclose the percentages of the fruits is proprietary. They, like any other company, don't want anyone to be able to easily copy their formulation.

    I tend to be a skeptic and hesitated for a few weeks before I finally decided to become a distributor. After using the product for a week, I found that I felt better and my nine year old daughter who lives with Cystic Fibrosis has seen improvement to her bowels as have I but in a different way.

    I did notice that someone made a comment that they would rather get their nutrition from real food. The problem with this ill informed statement is that this juice is made from real fruit. Actually, the company uses the whole fruit including what we would normally peel off when eating it directly from the store. As for the cost and use, we use less than the four ounces per day and have had great results.

    The business model, well, I work full time and offer this part-time. I am currently doing this business as a supplement to my income. Based on the comment today, I make $14 per hour, so if working the business gets me just over $4 per hour, that means that I am making $18 per hour which will do a lot more to help my pocketbook.

    Just my humble opinion.

  531. Lazy Man says:

    Well, we have to go with the label that's made available to us. I can easily find it on Google Images. I would to find a more official label, but couldn't find any on MonaVie's website. It's interesting that V8 happily supplies this information while MonaVie either hides it or doesn't make it available on the website at all.

    I noticed another medical testimony here. Again, someone needs to decide what MonaVie is going to be and stick to it. Some say it's a food, some say it's a supplement, and others speak of it like it's medicine (but are careful not to call it that because it's illegal). It's convenient that it's whatever you really want it to be.

    If they are going to tout the acai as being so good for you, I think it should at least tell us how much of that we are getting. If they don't want to give up the secret formula, they can keep the rest of the ingredients hidden. With 19 total ingredients, we are left to assume the worst case scenario and it's under 6% acai.

    I don't know who said real fruit, but I think the idea there was that people would rather have unprocessed fruit, since that's what the scientific studies have been done on.

  532. Candace says:

    Here's a sample of what types of "leaders" are coming on board with MonaVie.
    http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0811/050.html

    I don't have to make this stuff up, people. The wackos out there do it all by themselves.

    And people will just line up to throw their money at them.

  533. Vogel says:

    == Ingredients and Nutritive Value ==

    Acai – the manufacturer does not disclose the amount of acai in the product

    Phytonutrients – The manufacturer does not disclose the type or amounts of phytonutrients on the Monavie bottle label or in official marketing materials, nor are any claims about Monavie's phytonutrient content supported by research data or assay results from an independent analysis

    Essential Fatty Acids and polyphenols – The manufacturer provides no evidence that Monavie contains EFAs or polyphenols. The product label and marketing materials make no claims about MV containing EFAs or polyphenols, nor is there any research data or assay results from an independent analysis to indicate that Monavie contains EFAs or polyphenols.

    Vitamin A and E – The manufacturer has provided no evidence that Monavie contains either of these 2 vitamins, nor is there published research data or indepdentn analysis results to support such claims.

    ORAC – The manufacturer makes no specific claims as to the ORAC value of Monavie. There is no research data or independent analysis results indicating the actual ORAC value of a serving of Monavie.

    These facts stand in stark contrast with Ryan/Tut's claims that:

    - "There are 25,000 known phytonutrients in MonaVie."
    - "The juice contains 280 mg of polyphenols"
    - "Four ounces of MonaVie has an approximate ORAC value of 4,000 to 5,000 units"

    == Far Flung Sources of Fruit Probably Aren't Ideal for Nutrition or the Environment ==

    Monavie brochures boast that the ingredients in the product are obtained "from all over the world". How exactly is that a good thing? It increases the likelihood that Monavie:
    (a) contains ingredients that are old, spoiled or degraded as a result of shipping/transit to the US;
    (b) is made with juice concentrates and highly-processed fruit derivatives, which are more stable in transit
    (c) contains preservatives;
    (d) has a poor environmental thumbprint; in other words, the amount of energy required to ship ingredients from around the world is far greater than to ship fresher, more nutritious ones that can be obtained locally, not to mention that buying locally supports U.S. farmers.

    == Monavie vs. V8 ==

    If Ryan/Tut had dug a bit deeper on the V8 website, he might not have missed the additional information on the nutritional value of the product.

    V8 contains:

    - 17 mg lycopene
    - 100% RDA vit C
    - 100 RDA vit E
    - 140 mg sodium per 8 oz
    - Potassium
    - Calcium

    It is described as "an excellent source of vitamin A", and the vitamin A in V-8 comes from beta-carotene. V8 also comes in high-fiber and low-sodium versions.

    Monavie makes no official claims about containing vitamin E, A, or lycopene, and it is not a good source of fiber (< 1 g per serving) or calcium.

    V8 sells for $4.29 for 46 oz (9 cents per ounce) vs. Monavie's $42 dollars for 25 oz. ($1.68 per ounce); in other words, V8 sells for roughly 1/20th of the price of Monavie.
    == Monavie Disclosure Statement: What Constitutes a Distributor? ==
    Based on my analysis of the Monavie Disclosure Statement, I provide accurate data showing that the lower 90% of distributors makes less than $5 per hour on average – well below the federal minimum wage. Ryan/Tut then tried to suggest that these statistics includes people who were not true distributors but merely signed up for the product discount, an assumption which is clearly incorrect. He said the following:
    Ryan/Tut: "You are right, many people don't make that much from MonaVie. That is their choice. Most of those 90% aren't even completely dedicated to the business side of MV. I know, because I work with that every day. You do realize that signing up to be a distributor qualifies you for much better prices right? Many people become distributors for that reason only."
    The gist of these statements couldn't be farther from the truth. All of the distributors included in Monavie's disclosure statement were "active distributors" (not merely consumers trying to get discounted product) as indicated in the footnote of the table, which says the following:
    "A ‘Distributor' is defined as any person who: (1) executed a MonaVie Distributor Application and Agreement; (2) has sponsored at least one person; (3) has received at least one non-retail commission check; and (4) has been active in any of the eight weeks preceding the commissions period ("active" is defined in the MonaVie Compensation Plan as having generated 100 PV [Personal Volume] in a four-week period). Note that this excludes Retail Customers, Preferred Customers, retailers (those who have received a retail bonus only), pre-enrollees, Distributors who did not renew, and Customers, retailers, or Distributors whose relationships with MonaVie were revoked. An individual who has executed a MonaVie Independent Distributor Application and Agreement, but has not fulfilled the four criteria enumerated above is not a Distributor; that person is simply a Wholesale Customer. If, and only when, all four criteria are satisfied does that person become a Distributor."
    Furthermore, the disclosure statement also shows, quite clearly, that sellers at 3 lowest levels (Distributor, Star, and Star 500, which constitutes 90% of the sales force) work 8 to 11 hours per week. Obviously they wouldn't be working 8-11 hours a week if they merely signed up to receive a product discount.
    I have to wonder whether Ryan/Tut even bothers to read the sources that have been gathered. Instead he seems to be an apologist who only looks for evidence to support the deluded notion that selling Monvaie is a good think for society and ignores the overwhelming body of evidence to the contrary.
    == "Sarah Brown's" Email ==

    We repeatedly have asked why key details about Monavie are not listed on the label or in brochures and why there is no validation from published research or independent testing results? Why is it that the company never divulges any of these critical product details except in unofficial e-mail communiqués relayed from unidentifiable individuals like the one Ryan/Tut provided from "Sarah Brown" – someone who, for all we know, doesn't even exist? It seems highly suspect that the only known source on the planet for hitherto unknown details like ORAC amounts, polyphenols, vitamins etc. is "Sarah Brown". And why did this supposedly official communiqué not include contact information (e-mail and phone number)?

    == Morinda, Monarch, Xango, Tahitian Noni and Monavie ==

    Have a look at the history of these overpriced fraudulent "exotic" MLM fruit drinks and you will see that it all traces back to an MLM company called Moridna, which produces Tahitian Noni juice.

    Morinda executives left to form 2 new companies: Monarch Health Sciences and USANA. Monavie CEO Dallin Larsen was previously an executive with both companies. Monarch holds the patent to Monavie. Other executives split off to market Xango, another overpriced MLM fruit drink. The track records of Xango and Noni are pathetic. Both have been cited by the FDA for misleading advertising regarding health claims made about the products, and both have been the subject of scathing exposes and investigative reports.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahitian_Noni
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XanGo

    Monavie, like its predecessors and current MLM competitors, is just a reinvention of the same old fraudulent scam that these Utah-based MLMers have been using for years to rip off naïve and unsuspecting consumes. Let's also not forget the story of Royal Tongan Limu juice (produced by another company Larsen was affiliated with – Dynamic Essentials) which was run out of business by the FDA and fined more than 2 million dollars in a class action lawsuit.

    == Additives and Preservatives ==

    It is not entirely clear whether Monavie contains additives, although it appears likely and/or has been claimed by other sources that Monavie contains various additives and preservatives, including sodium benzoate, vitamin C, citric acid, artificial colorants, and possibly other chemicals as well. I alluded to this in an earlier post but Ryan/Tut has yet to comment. The possibility also exists that the product's antioxidant activity, assuming it has any at all, is due to the addition of vitamin C.

    Official company brochures states that Monavie has a 1-year shelf life if unopened and a shelf life of 1-2 months once opened. These shelf lives seem to far exceed those of most other pure fruit juices, which again suggests the use of considerable amounts of preservatives in Monavie.

    == Opti-Acai Patent Rejected by WIPO ==

    I pointed out that the much lauded WIPO patent filed for Opti-Acai seems to have been rejected. Ryan/Tut has failed to comment on this so far.

    == Dr. Mark Houston ==

    Ryan/Tut: "To his credit, Dr. Houston repeatedly and correctly points out that the evidence for benefit is much stronger when multiple foods and nutraceuticals are considered together rather than as isolated components."
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3987/is_20070507/ai_n19179450

    Reply: You couldn't have picked a less credible source to quote. Dr. Houston has been a distributor for another MLM fruit supplement scam (Juice Plus) for at least 9 years.

  534. LTinCali says:

    Hi Lazy Man,

    I checked Google Images and the first clear label I found did show the Potassium. I also noticed that the bottles in the other pictures are from before they updated the bottles. As for the label information, there is a product information sheet that is available on the company website that shows the label information the only problem is that it is available to distributors to download which I have and share with anyone who comes to meetings. I will be glad to share it with you privately as it is a pdf.

    As for my personal testimony, I can only tell you what I personally have experienced. I certainly cannot proclaim others.

    I do call it a fruit juice and nothing else. The only reference I have heard about food is that the acai berry is considered a super food. Other than that, the people I am teamed up with are all in concert about it being juice.

    As for the percentage of the fruit there is, I will make inquiries into this information and see what I come up with. It never hurts to ask.

    As for the article that Candace dug up in Forbes, I don't know who Orrin Woodward is nor have I heard of his tools. I get mine from a free download from one of my upline. The YouTube clip that was also referenced in the article near the bottom I have seen and he is referencing the research results in mice that has killed a certain type of cancer cell but does not claim that it cures cancer and the reporter obviously insinuated. Again, this is information that is in a free download as well.

    Unfortunately, reporters tend to change the facts when reporting to make their story more interesting.

    You are more than welcome to contact me directly to get the documents I am refering to.

  535. Lazy Man says:

    Google Search leads this image in the top left.

    Why does MonaVie not allow anyone to see the nutritional information? Why must you be a distributor? What are they trying to hide?

    The problem is that when you give your own personal medical testimony, it gives people the impression that it might be connected with a medical benefit. This is what many of us in this thread are talking about, since distributors say it fixed my this and that. No one knows that this is the factor and it is misleading to consumers.

    "As for the percentage of the fruit there is, I will make inquiries into this information and see what I come up with. It never hurts to ask." Please have them put it on the website for us to see that it's official too. This is something all consumers should have access to, not just those who happened to find the right distributor. Alas, I think we both know they'll hide behind their cloak of "trade secret."

    I think we've also shown that vitamin C tends to cure come kind of cancer cells as well. So any claim of this has to be compared against a control of other blended fruits. Otherwise, we can just save ourselves a lot of money and eat an orange.

  536. Vogel says:

    On the subject of ingredients, amounts, and bottle label details, I just found some new discrepancies in the information that is being provided by different Monavie distributors.

    I found this list of ingredients on a distributor website hosted by the company.
    http://www.mymonavie.com/givememonavie/mystory.asp

    I compared these details with those provided by Ryan/Tut/Sarah Brown (post #472). Here are the discrepancies (for convenience, I converted the values provided by Ryan/Tut/Sarah to amounts per ounce, since they were originally given as amounts per 4 oz serving)

    Potassium
    Ryan/Tut/Sarah: 55 mg/oz
    Website: 62-66 mg/oz
    (11%-17% higher value quoted by website)

    Vitamin K
    Ryan/Tut/Sarah: 12.4 ug/oz
    Website: 9.5 ug
    (31% higher value quoted by Ryan/Tut/Sarah)

    Vitamin D
    Ryan/Tut/Sarah: Not mentioned
    Website: 30 IU/oz

    Vitamin A
    Ryan/Tut/Sarah: 31.25 IU/oz
    Website: 50 IU per one ounce serving
    (60% higher value quoted by Ryan/Tut/Sarah)

    Calcium
    Ryan/Tut/Sarah: 6.25 IU/oz
    Website: 10 mg/oz
    (60% higher value quoted by website)

    Vitamin E
    Ryan/Tut/Sarah: 0.275 mg/oz
    Website: Not mentioned

    Fiber
    Ryan/Tut/Sarah: 0.75 g/oz
    Website: 1 g/oz
    Bottle label < 1 g/oz
    (33% higher value quoted by website)

    Note that the discrepancies were large – 60% in 2 cases. Note also that vitamin A, vitamin E, vitamin D, and calcium are not mentioned at all on the Monavie bottle label.

    The analysis above demonstrates once again that the Monavie nutritional information being provided to consumers is unreliable. If the company was willing to stand behind these claims, they would print them on the bottle label. The fact that they don't is a glaring red flag.

  537. Candace says:

    You hit the nail on the head, Vogel.

    Thank you for converting the nutritional values to per ounce, that is very helpful.

    All of these discrepancies...if Monavie were a map it would be nearly obliterated with red flags.

  538. James R. Stegner Jr. says:

    You really think that $175 a month is expensive for better health?! That's a joke! The majority of Starbucks-guzzling, McDonald's-shoveling, drug-dosers are too busy thinking about how they can get their next fix to stop and think about what really matters.

    Food is the basic building block of your body! If you make your house out of straw, it will blow away! The same concept holds true for your body...

    If you want to have a healthier life, then start by putting strong nutrients into your physical makeup. Not only is MonaVie dedicated to helping you build a strong body (from even the most basic cellular level), but its ingredients have also been shown, through tens of thousands of scientific studies, to reverse the effects of cellular damage!

    MonaVie is a whole food. Anybody who thinks that MonaVie is a scam has no idea about what real food is!

    Note to anyone reading this: there are three types of food 1)Fake Foods 2)Real Foods 3) Super Foods.

    MonaVie is not only a real food, but it has Acai as its main component. Acai has been repeatedly hailed as the World's #1 Super Food! And MonaVie takes it a step further by combining this Super Food with other amazingly beneficial fruits. Not only does MonaVie fuse its nutrient-dense products with Acai, but it has a patented formula that delivers the highest antioxidant rating for any fruit ever tested on a gram-to-gram basis!!!

    Since MonaVie has a proprietary blend, why would it reveal exactly how much Acai is in the mixture?! Does any company that has a product worth duplicating give you its recipe?...NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

    I'm sure the Acai berry is very cheap in Brazil. Duh! Have you ever heard of gas prices? Not only does it cost a lot of money to ship the Wild fruits contained in MonaVie to America, but you might want to consider the costs of bottling, taxes, and handling charges that are also passed onto anyone who wants the lasting benefits of better nutrition.

    On another note, you want a pharmaceutical company to back MonaVie? HA! That's amazingly laughable! Why in the world would a drug company support nutrition?! When we shovel our face with the Grease-Laden Foods we've become so accustomed to, we help the drug companies out! We build our bodies with the weakest materials possible so they can try to sell us some "miracle drug" that has more negative long-term side effects, than temporary benefits. No way would a drug-mongrel give up his comfy thrown to help us feel better through the amazing (AND PROVEN!!!!) benefits of healthy food!

    MonaVie is just a step for better health, and I think its very sad that you would rather criticize than try to be a part of the solution.

  539. James R. Stegner Jr. says:

    Oh and by the way...

    Any fruit that is an ingredient in a product has to be listed on the label. HOWEVER, since vitamins are in the fruits, they do not need to be listed. Especially since it is impossible to measure the vitamin content of each individual fruit put in the blend. This is impossible because the amount of vitamins in each fruit depends on the amount of rain fall in the region, the specific region from which it is picked, the part of the tree/bush it is hanging from (ie near the top or bottom), the time of year it is harvested, etc. etc.!

  540. Sandy says:

    I am not a Monavie distributor, but I do know a few people who are & some who are just drinking the stuff. (I call them Monavie "members".) I decided to try it when someone gave me a free bottle. He didn't tell me anything about it because he thought I already knew about the benefits of acai, since I was drinking an 'acai' tea. Though I did not. One of the thimgs I noticed is that my sleep has greatly improved and I have only taken it for about one week. My husband tried it the same time as I and he claims that he hasn't felt the need for his three prescription pills, (that he takes like clockwork.) We weren't given any examples of what we should expect, so we didn't have any pre-conceived ideas of what it would do. I happened onto your site because I was looking for more info about the product. Yesterday, I talked to someone who suffers advanced stages of Parkinson's disease and found that he has been drinking Monavie and found that his insomnia of the past 5 years is gone. He sleeps through the night now. I've suffered with insomnia for over 10 years with fibromyalgia. I guess it will help whatever you need it to. And I'm sure some people won't notice anything at all. Each of us is unique and there isn't anything that will do the same thing for everyone. Is it a placebo? I don't know, but I know I've tried many and I mean many different prescriptions over the years and have not found much success/help from any of them. In fact, more problems than corrections. The side affects and financial cost alone has been enough for me to all but swear off all pharmaceutical drugs. The pharaceutical companies (though regulated by the government) have been selling us a bill of goods. My husband, mother and sister are all in the medical field and have seen their share of messed up drug related issues. I hear of these older people who go to the doctor with their 20+ pill bottles and say things like, "I take all of these and I don't feel any better, if anything, worse than before I got all these pills." Why can people so gullibly accept a doctor's prescription, that's going to end up costing well over $100 for a month supply, but not be open-minded enough to try a possible natural remedy, without the side affects? My grandmother lived with me and my family the last 7 years of her life. She was dying when she came to live with us at age 89. She had been hospitalized 4 times in a 30 day period for heart complications. My husband & I (together with her doctor) eventually weaned her off of most of her prescriptions and she lived to be 96. Just by eating right and using holistic methods (just like this Monavie.) By the way, my husband & I only took 2 oz. of the Monavie per day. So, that means that if I join their club membership, (that's all it really is) I will only spend about $75/month. (In contrast to what the doctor ordered at well over $100, which didn't do any good anyway.) I'm glad I found this site, it did help me to do the math and weigh the cost. I think Monavie is for me. Oh, and by the way, I cancelled my Costco membership, because I wasn't saving any money by shopping there. The grocery store close to my house offers the same prices on most products.

  541. Candace says:

    James R. Stegner, Jr.,

    Thank for that enlightening post that told us absolutely nothing new nor did it give us any supported and documented facts.

    And this line"The majority of Starbucks-guzzling, McDonald's-shoveling, drug-dosers are too busy thinking about how they can get their next fix to stop and think about what really matters."

    What a spiel!! All you Mona-bots sound exactly the same. Y'all need to at least find a way to mix up what other fast food/fast coffee places you're going to throw under the bus as a way of promoting your "super food super miracle making cure-all".

    And I gotta tell you, this paragraph is a doozy! I'd love to see the studies that back up this claim: "Any fruit that is an ingredient in a product has to be listed on the label. HOWEVER, since vitamins are in the fruits, they do not need to be listed. "

    First of all, MonaVie does NOT list all of the fruits in the bottle on the label. At least they weren't listed on the bottles we had, and I've heard others say the same. So much for that part of your paragraph.

    I'd love to see the studies that back up this claim: "Especially since it is impossible to measure the vitamin content of each individual fruit put in the blend. This is impossible because the amount of vitamins in each fruit depends on the amount of rain fall in the region, the specific region from which it is picked, the part of the tree/bush it is hanging from (ie near the top or bottom), the time of year it is harvested, etc. etc.!"

    So, if that's true...you yourself just stated that we cannot at any time ever be sure what's in MonaVie or the nutritional value of MonaVie.
    Nice going, and thanks for proving the point we've all been making over here...what the heck is REALLY in MonaVie, and what REAL nutritional value is there in it? According to you, it would never be consistent, nor would we ever know what we were getting unless we had EACH bottle tested for ingredients, nutrient content, and additives.

    So are you saying that all the major fruit juice bottling companies have no idea at all what is in each bottle of juice they make and put labels on every single day, either???

    You need to do a lot more research before you come on here spewing opinions and repeating information like it is fact.

    Anyone have anything NEW and actually informative to share about MonaVie's juice?

  542. Lazy Man says:

    James R. Stegner Jr.,

    One more thing about the pharmaceutical companies... there are a lot of small ones who would stand a lot to gain by proving MonaVie a "cure all." Individual doctors could win a Nobel Prize with an effective study. That would be worth millions to them and well worth pursuing... if there is something to pursue.

  543. Tony Marinelli says:

    Read thru this blog - and am in no way surprised by the comments. The name of the blog suggests it all...... (Mona Vie Scam?) With that invitation, of course the highest percentage of people responding will be negative.

    Most people who do believe in the product won't even go here.

    It's funny - I was watching TV last night and I saw (among the many) a commercial on a particular pharmaceutical being advertised to help fibromialgia and osteoporosis. 50% of the commercial was devoted to 'potential' side-effects, many being worse than the actual problem. They didn't advertise the price, however.

    Now, I know in many cases, this juice will help people with that sort of problem (yes, it's documented all over the web - LOOK!!). But how many would 'buy' this juice rather than take their doctor's prescription for the 'drug' - side-effects notwithstanding? How many will pay a large sum for their pills and never balk (except for the price) and the complaints of little or no relief afterward?

    I absolutely agree that the price of Mona Vie is high, and yes, somebody is making some money. I don't know if that in itself negates the value of the product - if it works. As for mulit-level marketing - some are better than others.

    From the 'corporate' view - I have a few friends that work at pharmaceutical companies (some very high up). What 'level' is Mr. X within his pharmaceutical company? How many over him? How many under him? Does he make any $ when doctors recommend and CVS sells his product? Stock options? Profit sharing? Bonuses? What 'level' are you at within your company? All corporations are inverted trees with the CEO at the top.

    Much of this is a matter of perception and trust. If you trust that the product will help, and you trust the person you're buying it from - and you see a legitimate 'market' then I say go for it. It's the great American way.

    It is interesting. Since I have been drinking this juice I have become 'aware' of so many people who might benefit from it. If (and that is a big IF) it provides the kind of help that has been attributed to it. Many people have tried many avenues of help to no avail. I gave a friend one bottle (she bought one at less than my cost). I am hoping it helps her. Not to make money - but to help her feel better. Her complaints were directly in line with this products purported benefits. Several others as well have expressed interest in something that will help them with their ailments. I spoke to a guy at church yesterday who was describing his wife's chronic illness - and the drugs she's taken for years with little or no relief (other than addiction). 600 pills a month!!! I'm certain she would benefit from Mona Vie, but they have no money. I wish I could help them - and I may.

    It may really help you!! Another friend of mine (Bill B.) may not have many health problems now - but you can almost guarantee he will when he gets a little older. His diet is horrible (meat, junk and NO veggies)!!!

    In our fast-paced society, it's fine to 'SAY' we should eat the fresh fruits and vegetables ('raw' as this blog suggests) - but the fact is that nobody does!

    And so, if this product REALLY helps people feel better and get healthier, I think it's worth the money they charge - even at list price. I hope I can get it for folks at significantly less than that. If it doesn't work - it's worth nothing.

    Anyway - enough 'blogging' for now........ :-)

    Tony

  544. Tony Marinelli says:

    Well, almost enough blogging....

    Candice recently wrote: "So are you saying that all the major fruit juice bottling companies have no idea at all what is in each bottle of juice they make and put labels on every single day, either???" Quoting James R. Stegner, Jr.

    I believe the answer to that question is an unequivocal "YES." The major commercial bottling companies have NO IDEA of the precise amounts of vitamins, minerals and nutrients in each and every bottle of their product. They obtain those 'values' based on the USDA listed values of each ingredient multiplied by the percentage per servinig in their product.

    My cousin works in the chemestry/lab department of the 'largest' soup manufacturer in the US. She is a scientist involved in determining the labeling values for the products requirements. This company is among the most stringent in the world in their procedures. You would be absolutely amazed at how many of the 'labeling requirements' are derived in order to comply with onerous (and often ridiculous/meaningless) USDA requirements.

    Just take a look at 'competetive' products next time you are in your favorite market. Isn't it innteresting that 'apples for apples' the nutrient/calorie content for like products are almost always EXACTLY the same? Do you think these companies ALL have multi-million dollar laboratories that actually scientifically test their products? If you do, you are niave.

    Not trying to be 'smart' - just trying to set the record straight.

    Tony

  545. Lazy Man says:

    Tony, you are going to give us Massachusettsians a bad name. (People hate us enough for dominating in sports the last few years.)

    Pharmaceutical products have to mention and potential side-effects in the commercials. It's the law. It doesn't mean that a lot of people get the side-effects. And at least the FDA approves it as improving a medical condition. That's something that MonaVie can't claim.

    Tony said, "If (and that is a big IF) it provides the kind of help that has been attributed to it." That's the point. It's a huge IF to putting your money into. Medications have been tested and shown to work. I'd rather put my money in something tested, then the biased belief of a distributor.

    If no one does eat fruits and vegetables, the answer is to start. We've already shown in the comments here that V8 is as healthy by all measures available to us at a significantly cheaper cost.

    I'm sure that the bottle companies have some idea of what their nutritional content is on average. It may differ from batch to batch. For instance my whey protein says that it has approximately so much Taurine in it. We have to take on face value that each company is doing the best it can to measure. In short, MonaVie is no different that V8 in this aspect, so I don't see how it fits in the discussion.

    From KingTut's link:
    "USANA Health Sciences, Inc. USNA, Barry Minkow and the Fraud Discovery Institute (FDI) today announced the settlement of their lawsuit pending in the United States District Court for the District of Utah." That always instills confidence in a product. I'd rather take a vitamin that wasn't involved in a law suit with the Fraud Discovery Institute in the first place - tons of them available at the local drugstore.

  546. KingTut57 says:

    LazyMan,
    Are you being serious? I simply posted this for Candace who was talking about the litigation that USANA was going through. They no longer are.

    "I'd rather take a vitamin that wasn't involved in a law suit with the Fraud Discovery Institute in the first place..."
    Get your facts straight LM. The vitamins had nothing to do with the lawsuit. It was the business practice that was in question, but after a shareholder lawsuit attempt, FDI lawsuit attempt, and a thourough investigation by the SEC nothing has proven anything against USANA.

    I want to make a point here LM. You and others on here keep jumping on a few of us who are trying to help you see from our side. If we make one little statement that doesn't add up, you are down our throats.

    You have made many of these statements yourself so now its time to jump on you. You have made false claims about MonaVie's product, no different from any MV distributor has done.

    I have put personal thoughts on many topics and you all jump on me like I'm an idiot. One example on the other side is you saying your personal opinion about taking a product that was involved in a lawsuit. There has been NO judgement against USANA but because you say it is bad that they were even involved is proof you shouldn't take their products. This is unfounded and ridiculous. I would venture to say that a large majority of multi-million/billion dollar businesses have had lawsuits filed against them without any of them proving to be valid. Yet, I'm sure you buy products from many of these companies, yet because you are so entrenched in your opinion against myself and MV/USANA that it only makes sense now to make the point that buying a product from a company that has had a lawsuit filed (not granted) against it is a bad idea. That is ludicrous and ridiculous. This is my argument against YOU.

    Vogel,
    Nice work on the math on the 90% below minimum wage. Just so you know that is false information. You have to use the word average when you make that claim. You should say that 90% of MV distributors average below minimum wage. Not 90% of MV distributors make below minimum wage.

    Your comments are one level less generalized than this: 100% of MV distributors make 100% of the commissions. RIDICULOUS.

    Candace,
    I showed you the labeling laws. You read them how you wanted to to support your position against MV. Yet, I have heard from numerous sources and through my own common sense know that a product not classified as a supplement/drug can NOT put supplement facts on their labels.

    Lat,
    You can pull two quotes from two completely unrelated paragraphs and make me look like a hypocrite all day long. I don't care. If I have time in the next few days I'm going to do the same to you.

    I'm now playing your game. It's called the game of absolute closed-minded infants who use sarcasm and false-whit to communicate. I don't have a study that says "MonaVie is a miracle cure." So, there is no point in me arguing with you. So instead, I'm going to point out when you are using unfair debating practices.

    Have a good day!

  547. Candace says:

    Ryan, I have no idea what you are talking about, honestly.
    Perhaps it's the fact that I had a margarita with my lunch today, and haven't done so in about 10 years, but I truly do not know what you are talking about.

    Bread is a food. It is not a supplement. Yet, somehow, it has all the vitamin, mineral, nutritional, and supplemental information readily available on the label.

    If MonaVie wants to be called a food, then why is their label sorely lacking in information?

    If MonaVie wants to make unsupported health claims (not to mention illegal as well), then they are now a medicine or drug, and must fall under the drug and medicine guidelines set forth by the FDA.

    If they are a dietary supplement, they still must list the contents of the bottle as well as the nutritional values for vitamins & minerals ON THE LABEL.

    I truly don't know what there is to disagree with here, it is clear on the FDA's website that all foods/drugs/supplements MUST list the nutritional values on the labels.

  548. Candace says:

    @Tony Marinelli: you wrote this:"Candice recently wrote: "So are you saying that all the major fruit juice bottling companies have no idea at all what is in each bottle of juice they make and put labels on every single day, either???" Quoting James R. Stegner, Jr.

    I believe the answer to that question is an unequivocal "YES." The major commercial bottling companies have NO IDEA of the precise amounts of vitamins, minerals and nutrients in each and every bottle of their product. They obtain those ‘values' based on the USDA listed values of each ingredient multiplied by the percentage per servinig in their product."

    On this particular blog referring to the juice known as "MonaVie", Tony, we are not into talking about what we "believe". We are trying very hard to separate fact from fiction here.
    We are interested only in what you can prove.
    We don't want ideas, thoughts, conjecture, hyperbole, hypothesis, or imaginings. We want to know the truth.

    When you're ready to prove that which you type, then please do, prove to us that MonaVie is what it says it is, the ingredients that are reported to be in it really are, and the antioxidant/phytonutrient content is really what you all are *saying* it is. Perhaps then it will appear a bit less like snake oil and more like over priced fruit juice.

    Until you can prove it, we don't want to hear it. This blog is filled with people's opinions that have been relayed as though they are fact. This blog is full of information that some distributor somewhere has told someone and they've told someone, and they've told someone, and all of you are repeating the drivel as if it's actual fact. But it's not, it's simply what someone somewhere at some point in time said.

  549. Lazy Man says:

    KingTut, I won't bother getting my fact straight on USANA. I didn't research or write about USANA. It's not really on the topic of discussion here (MonaVie), and I really don't feel the need to research it. You may note that I didn't say USANA is bad (like you imply). I simply said that I would look go pick up something that has a chance at no controversy. It's simply my opinion. I'm allowed to state my opinion, I never represented it as fact.

    I did research MonaVie and to this point I have made no false claims save for the one that I put the negative in the wrong place because it was late at night (more of a typo). Please point out any false claims that I have made.

    Why does MonaVie not classify itself as a supplement like the EAS ready-to-go protein drinks? With a serving size of one ounce, it feels like a supplement to me. What's the difference here? We glossed over this, but if MonaVie CAN qualify as a supplement and put the supplement information on the label, it should - it would surely help sales. If it CAN'T, I'd like to know the law/reason why. (Maybe there's a good explanation for why it can't, I'm simply saying that I don't know the classification rules well enough).

  550. Tony Marinelli says:

    Hi Candice,

    First of all - PLEASE!!!! The 2nd highest percentage of 'ideas, thoughts, conjecture, hyperbole, hypothesis, or imaginings' on this blog are yours. Our illustrious 'host' takes grand-prize, of course.

    Would you like 'proof.' I don't know what kind of 'proof' you'd like. A research study in 2006 by the University of Florida has documented that the juice from the Acai berry kills leukemia cells IN A PETRI dish (http://news.ufl.edu/2006/01/12/berries/ - I'm sure you know this).

    I have leukemia (CLL). Diagnosed 4/07. In December 2007, I stopped taking chemo therapy, as my white blood count (wbc) decreased to near normal levels. Since December 2007, my wbc has continued to trend back upward - as expected with a 'normal' CLL condition. On June 8th, 2008, my blood sample showed a wbc of 52K (5 times higher than normal). Two days later, a friend gave me two bottles of Mona Vie and strongly suggested I drink this according to recommended instructions (2oz/twice daily).

    Reluctantly and skeptically, I did. On July 3, 2008, my next blood work showed my wbc had dropped to 41K - a 20% decrease! I did nothing different other than drink the juice. On July 18, 2008, my next test showed my wbc had dropped another 2.5 points to 39.3.

    I have the lab work from the hospital and I will gladly fax it to you if you'd like to see that I'm not 'fabricating' this.

    I make no claims that Mona Vie is a medicine or should be used medicinally. I merely state my own documented case.

    Will that convince you or anyone else that this product (or this berry) has value beyond the cheap $3/bottle diluted versions in my supermarket (which I had been drinking for a year) - probably not.

    I just read a story from the Bible last Sunday that describes some folks that love to 'blog.'

    (Mat 11:16-17 NIV) "To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others: {17} "'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.'

    In other words - it really doesn't matter what other people have to say - even if valid testimony is given. You will choose to believe whatever you want to believe regardless.

    Mona Vie is what it is. What is your case against it? Are you that troubled that people are making money from selling it? Are you so upset that some people think it is the 'cats meow'?

    Is it overpriced? According to some tastes, maybe. So what! So is the brand of paper towels that I buy. But I choose to buy them because the manufacturer 'says' they are the 'quicker picker-upper.' (On wait, I don't know if they've actually done a scientific study on that - I think I'll start a blog against my paper towel company to disavow all of the claims and advertising they do for this product.)

    A food? A drug? A supplement? Doesn't the SAME governmental agency regulate all of these industries? (ie, U.S. Food and Drug Administration). I think your real complaint should be with THEM rather than with companies like Mona Vie, their distributors or customers.

    If the USDA felt that Mona Vie is/was/will be out of line, you'd better believe they will be receiving a letter or visit from their 'Uncle' in the not-to-distant future. Lord knows that most, if not all, pharmaceutical companies have already had many such visits.

    So, let me know if you want to see the 'proof' of my claims (only what has happened to ME personally). I will get them to you if you supply me with your contact information. Oh yes, I can also supply you with a letter from my hematologist stating that I have not been on any pharmaceuticals for my leukemia since December 2007 (just in case you still don't 'trust' me).

    Have a wonderful, juice filled day!

    Tony

  551. Tony Marinelli says:

    Hi Lazyman,

    You wrote, "if MonaVie CAN qualify as a supplement and put the supplement information on the label, it should - it would surely help sales. If it CAN'T, I'd like to know the law/reason why."

    I agree. The only reason I can 'think' of (if I'm allowed to think, dear Candice), is that they may be protecting a proprietary 'blend' of their juice for commercial security. I have seen this kind of obscure labeling in the past on many products.

    I would certainly like to know how MUCH acai berry is in the product, compared to other 'competitive' products such as Mystica, TruAcai, etc. Quite frankly, I've had trouble FINDING many competing products on the web. Very few - and all about the same price (if you want a high concentration of acai berry, that is).

    Truth be told - no company would provide ANY product or ingredient information on a consumer label if they were not mandated to do so by the FDA/USDA. Those that do provide information provide ONLY what is absolutely required, and in the most obscure means they can legally get away with - in every case to protect their own proprietary 'secrets.' (Just try getting the detail on MacDonald's special sauce used in the Big Mac or Ocean Spray's specific breakdown of the Cran-Grape blend, etc.). It will never happen, but it would be nice.

    Have a great day!

    Tony

  552. Lazy Man says:

    Tony,

    Green tea (at pennies per serving) also kills Leukemia cells. And I know how much green tea is in green tea... while I don't know how much acai is in MonaVie.

    I'd like to talk with your doctor and find out if he's willing to commission a study based on your experience. He has a lot to gain by proving that your labs were attributable to your intake of MonaVie juice.

    I'd also like to know how you managed to try every juice in every store enough to tell if it would have an effect. As KingTut here says, you need to give each juice at least a year to know if it works.

    "Mona Vie is what it is. What is your case against it? Are you that troubled that people are making money from selling it? Are you so upset that some people think it is the ‘cats meow'?"

    I don't think this is directed to me, but I'll take a shot anyway. I am concerned about people losing vast amounts of money on something that's a hunch. We've already shown that people aren't making much money from selling it, so that's not really a concern.

    Your paper towels may be overpriced, but they aren't costing you $5000-6000 a year for a family of four. I make the comparison to buying a $25,000 Yugo... there's overpriced and then there's ridiculously priced.

    My whey protein (which includes a proprietary blend that includes creatine) tells me how much creatine is in it. It doesn't have to give up the blend to tell us the full nutritional information behind it.

    "(if you want a high concentration of acai berry, that is)" Define "high concentration?" With 19 juices, Acai could be less than 6%. V8's Acai Fusion juice might also contain as much Acai. We don't know.

    Again my whey protein gives me the typical amino acid breakdown (something like 19 different kinds). Proprietary ingredient information and nutritional/supplemental information are very different things. There was a claim that MonaVie has amino acids in it. I want to know why my whey protein isn't afraid to tell me, but MonaVie is.

    BTW, if you are curious, McDonald's Big Mac's special sauce is thousand island dressing.

  553. Tony Marinelli says:

    Hi Lazyman,

    Green tea does not kill leukemia cells. Antioxidants do and there are some, but very little in green tea. Only YOU need to know how much in in Mona Vie. I don't care how much antioxidants there are as long as it works.

    My doctor will gladly commission a study based on my experience - if you will fund it. Frankly he isn't interested in my drinking juices - he is waiting to stick an I/V needle in me for the next round of chemo (which was supposed to start at the beginning of June).

    You're being facetious or ridiculous, I can't tell. I never said I tried every juice - I said I tried commercially available acai berry juices (several) over the past year. No effect. I have been drinking juices for many years. I've been 'into' antioxidants and free-radicals for more then 15 years - when very few people ever heard of them. I am not new to this field.

    Thank you for your concern for 'people' spending thousands of dollars for "something that is a hunch." Have you asked every person who's purchased Mona Vie if it was a hunch? How did you come to that conclusion. It may have been a hunch for you, but most other people were recommended to try it, they liked it and buy more.

    And my paper towel illustration is perfectly germane. It doesn't matter the 'size' or the dollar value of the 'perceived' value that drives some to pay a high price for a product - what matters is what a consumer is willing to pay for what he/she is getting in a market of available items. Are you a communist?

    Your 'whey protein' manufacturer is very forthcoming. That is noble. So you think that every other company should hold themselves to the standard that YOU have come to believe is correct rather than what the law states is acceptable? You have become the judge, jury and executioner of Mona Vie and it's proponents. Congratulations.

    And - MacDonald's 'special sauce' is NOT thousand island dressing. Please try to find me the exact ingredient and nutrition makeup if you can. I cannot because MacDonalds 'guards' that recipe as a trade secret. I worked for Ocean Spray and i assure you will not be able to obtain their juice recipes either - unless you steal them somehow.

    Please understand. I am not a 'loyal Mona Vie fan' or advocate. I have looked for comparable products ad-nauseum. If you can find me a product that is rich in concentrated juices including acai and pomegranate that costs $10/quart or so - I will gladly purchase that instead. Please let me know what it is and give me a place I can purchase it.

    Have a acai berry and whey protein shake day!

    Tony

  554. Lazy Man says:

    "Green tea does not kill leukemia cells. Antioxidants do and there are some, but very little in green tea. Only YOU need to know how much in in Mona Vie. I don't care how much antioxidants there are as long as it works."

    It's not just me. Anyone spending money on any product should ask if they can get the same value for less money. How do you know that Green tea has very little antioxidants? How do you know it has less than MonaVie? We've shown that the ORAC value for dark chocolate is much higher than the testing on MonaVie or acai. One could think that dark chocolate would work even better AND be cheaper! If true, that's something everyone should know.

    Your doctor stands to gain a Nobel Prize in medicine if he can duplicate the effects. He'll be happy to fund it himself, given the huge career boost he'll get.

    I'm being neither facetious or ridiculous. I know it's a lot to ask someone to read 550 comments, but much of this has come up already. Many people say, just "try MonaVie and see what it can do." Every product in the GNC nutritional store can say the same thing. Why would anyone pick MonaVie over any of them? What information is being given to us to believe it may help more than a multivitamin?

    "Thank you for your concern for ‘people' spending thousands of dollars for "something that is a hunch." Have you asked every person who's purchased Mona Vie if it was a hunch? How did you come to that conclusion."

    So what information did they go on to make their decision? Were they recommended to try it by someone with absolutely nothing to gain (i.e. not a distributor)? I have asked people what information make them choose it over say V8. I haven't yet seen an answer that can be verified. People may say that V8 is diluted to the point of not being as effective. I want to know why people say that. Where is the basis for saying that it's not as good as MonaVie for much less?

    "It doesn't matter the 'size' or the dollar value of the ‘perceived' value that drives some to pay a high price for a product - what matters is what a consumer is willing to pay for what he/she is getting in a market of available items."

    Exactly, now you are getting it. This is why I am trying to figure out what the consumer is getting for their dollar. If MonaVie is more forthcoming with why it should be priced so much more than V8 or plain old fruit, then the high price of the product is fine with me. Since it's being hidden from us, what is the justification for it's price?

    I think you missed the point of the whey protein. It was brought up a long time ago. A distributor claimed that MonaVie had protein in it, then realized his mistake and said it had amino acids in it. My whey protein tells me how much amino acids I'm getting. No one from MonaVie is willing to do the same.

    Everyone can be their own judge, I'm just trying to get straight-forward facts. If it sounds like I'm judging MonaVie, it's the frustration of 550+ comments coming through and very rarely getting any of the information that would be helpful in making me make a purchasing decision.

    McDonald's sauce is a variant of Thousand Island dressing. It's close enough for the purposes of the discussion. The thing about Big Macs and Ocean Spray is that no one is claiming disease-curing health benefits from them and charging a price that is ten times as much. That's an entirely different standard MonaVie has set themselves up for (even if it's just the distributors claiming the health benefits). As I said in the original story, at the price that MonaVie is charging, they need to justify why everyone shouldn't go with the cheaper alternatives.

    "If you can find me a product that is rich in concentrated juices including acai and pomegranate that costs $10/quart or so - I will gladly purchase that instead. Please let me know what it is and give me a place I can purchase it."
    http://www.v8juice.com/fusion.aspx?ProductID=120827
    http://www.v8juice.com/fusion.aspx?ProductID=120672

    I saw both of these Wal-Mart for about $2.75 for 46 ounces (about 1.5 quarts) each. I give you it's not as concentrated. You have to drink twice as much (we covered this in earlier comments, please review those before disputing this claim). (Also, don't worry drinking 8 ounces isn't much - people need their liquids). That's $5.50 for 3 quarts or 92 ounces. Since you have to drink twice as much, let's call it equivalent to 1.5 quarts or 46 ounces. It's still way under the $10 price per quart that you were looking for.

    In fact it leaves plenty of room in your budget for some ORAC boosting dark chocolate. There's probably even enough for a glass of Charles Shaw wine, if you believe in the health benefits associated with that.

  555. Candace says:

    @Tony Marinelli:

    Tony, I am not going to get into an arguing session with you about things that have already been posted and read and discussed on this forum. Lazy Man was kind in telling you that 550 comments are alot to read, but I will not be so understanding. If you, or anyone, is going to jump on here, and be sarcastic and call people out, then you darn well have the responsibility to read every single post and click on every single link and read every bit of research that you're arguing against.

    In fact, it is very RUDE of you not to.

    The rest of us have taken many hours researching everything we can find on MonaVie the juice and MonaVie LLC, the company. Your behavior is indicative of people with no respect for others.

    That being said, I will not reply to your post, as the information you seek is found throughout this blog and it's posts.

    I will call you out on two things, tho. *I* am NOT a monavie user, member, or distributor. *I* have not gone online or anywhere making illegal health claims about a fruit juice. MonaVie distributors have, and you have, so YES, it IS up to YOU to prove that your juice is worth 20-45 bucks a bottle depending where/how you get it. Any "ideas, thoughts, conjecture, hyperbole, hypothesis, or imaginings" that *I* have posted are understandable as *I* have requested the facts and the truth many many times over, but MonaVie, it's distributors, and you, have NOT been able to provide the evidence needed.
    But it is obvious that YOU have not gone through all these posts and researched the links we have provided or you would understand and know what the issues are that are on the table right now.

    Secondly...what the heck? Can we not all agree to keep race, religion, and politics out of this discussion???!!! "PLEASE!!!!!!" yourself, Tony...I was a theology major, we could quote Bible verses back and forth all day long, but *that is NOT what this forum is for*.

    I agree with Lazy Man's reply to you on all the issues he touched on, so I will not fill up this post with more of the same.

    For clarity's sake and in the interest of getting us all back on track, I will copy and paste the list of questions/discrepancies that still exist. (thank you, Vogel, for taking our comments and making the list as short and to the point as possible.)

    1. Monavie has considerably more sugar per ounce than 100% OJ, grapefruit juice, Coke, Pepsi, Sprite, and 7-Up.
    2. The percentage/weight of acai in Monavie is undisclosed.
    3. The label does not show Monavie to be a significant source of any nutrient.
    4. There is no published data on the antioxidant capacity of Monavie.
    5. There is no indication that a 2-4 oz shot of Monavie is equivalent to even a single serving's worth of whole fruit or fruit juice.
    6. Monavie is not a significant source of protein.
    7. The company falsely claims that there is research proving that Monav